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Interest check in Legend of the Five Rings RPG.

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Welcome to Rokugan

Don't know what the game system will be, but I own .pdfs of all versions. (Including Rokugan [d20]).

I wonder if anyone is interested in playing in the Emerald Empire (pre-scorpion clan coup). I suggest players either be Bushi, Courtier, or Shugenja. But ninja might be chosen as well. Choose carefully, though.

Rokugan is a High Fantasy version of Japan during the Sengoku period. Commonly known as the feudal period. If you have the Sengoku RPG, then you know what I'm talking about. The Clan War hasn't started yet.

Game Systems

We have several game systems to choose from. Although it's ultimately up to me, the GM, which to choose. I just want to get everyone's input on which game system they prefer.

Legend of the Five Rings, 1st edition
This is what I enjoy. The original system had you playing either a Bushi or a Shugenja. With a difference in outfit and in Kenjutsu style pertaining to each clan. You also choose between three families from each Great Clan. You could choose advantages and disadvantages for your character. All of these options are expanded by the Way of the [Clan] books, allowing for more customization options, and two additional families for each clan. This version is great, and deadly, if you want to customize your bushi or shugenja to your taste using the L5R RPG and the Way of the (clan) series.

Legend of the Five Rings, 2nd Edition

I've not had any experience with this edition, except for the Time of the Void book (and pdf). Though options for second edition was written in the d20 books.

Oriental Adventures, and ROKUGAN
The d20 System. The Samurai Class -- unlike the Samurai class found in Ultimate Combat -- allowed for customization. You could customize your style of Kenjutsu for your character through feats. The Rokugan d20 book greatly increased the feats you can choose. Also, each family in each Clan was treated as a separate race. The Shugenja class was treated as a divine variant of the sorcerer. This version is great if you want to customize your Samurai or Shugenja through feats and prestige classes (which were included in later books). The Courtier class introduced in Rokugan, could only be customized with options from the Secrets of the (clan) books. However.

3rd Edition
I don't have a lot of experience with third edition. Though it returned to the roll and keep mechanic of 1st edition.

4th Edition
Played through one game of this.

What about Pathfinder?
The Pathfinder version of the Samurai, well, sucks. Sorry.

I've always wanted to play in Rokugan. I've played a few Oriental Adventures d20/3.x samurai, but they were mostly in western-influenced/'traditional' settings. Not sure about Legend of the Five Rings rpg other than that I'd love to see more iaijutsu duels. Would probably play a Crane samurai, probably Kakita duelist or iaijutsu master (all of those are OA d20/3.x classes/PrCs, but I assume there's LotFR versions from the non-d20 systems).
Dark Archive

I would be interested in this. I have experience in the 1st and 3rd edition of the game and have enjoyed it. I also have a bunch of the books. I would be up for the d20 version as well if that is what people wanted to do.

That sounds really cool. I played 1e and 2e Oriental Adventures and had bought the rules for 5 rings but never played it.
Tamahi Kiyoko wrote:
I've always wanted to play in Rokugan. I've played a few Oriental Adventures d20/3.x samurai, but they were mostly in western-influenced/'traditional' settings. Not sure about Legend of the Five Rings rpg other than that I'd love to see more iaijutsu duels. Would probably play a Crane samurai, probably Kakita duelist or iaijutsu master (all of those are OA d20/3.x classes/PrCs, but I assume there's LotFR versions from the non-d20 systems).

It's a fun setting. As soon as you realize it's like heroic fantasy, you should have a fun time playing.

Quote:
I would be interested in this. I have experience in the 1st and 3rd edition of the game and have enjoyed it. I also have a bunch of the books. I would be up for the d20 version as well if that is what people wanted to do.

I've been familiarizing myself with the 5th edition as well as earilier editions. I don't like 5th edition, the setting is reduced to a low fantasy setting with that one.

Insnare wrote:
That sounds really cool. I played 1e and 2e Oriental Adventures and had bought the rules for 5 rings but never played it.

Ah. I think you'll enjoy this game.

I'm prejudiced to 4th Ed, because of Rob Hobart. He got over-ruled quite a bit, but he tried hard to return to the core ideas of 1st Ed, while keeping things far more balanced. He's written online some about his experiences working on 4th.

Rob Hobart created the shared campaign that made the 1st Ed books a hot property after the print runs had long since finished. His story arc (ending with the Second Day of Thunder) and feedback about the system during that experience helped him forge the relationships that made him part of the 4th Ed team. Then he ran a second shared campaign out of the 3rd? Ed books. His first campaign was my introduction to Rokugan. I eagerly came back for the second, but ended up having to walk away from the convention gaming environment.

Hobart is no longer directly connected either to the shared campaign or current rules set. He stepped back so he could focus on his gaming store and expanding family, as he and his wife had their first child. These days he's writing Rokugan-style fiction and selling it on Amazon. Working book 4 of what was supposed to be a trilogy, but that last book got too big to be one volume. These updates brought to you by NOT unfriending someone on Facebook.

The people who picked up and kept running a shared Rokugani campaign after Hobart stepped back were using 4th Ed last I knew.

Historically, I play Phoenix. Frequently, but far from exclusively, Shugenja. I tend to favor Water and Void rituals, though low-level Void rituals tend to be perceived as less useful. I've played all 3 roles for the Phoenix, and can be happy playing a Yojimbo who works not to be significant in the eyes of those his charge meets.

Edit: Oops. Got my editions wrong. Corrected. I have 1st, 3rd, and 4th on the shelf. Now I'm struggling to remember if Hobart's second campaign was in 3rd or 4th. Might have been in 3rd while he was working on 4th. I'm getting old.
Tamahi Kiyoko wrote:
I've always wanted to play in Rokugan. I've played a few Oriental Adventures d20/3.x samurai, but they were mostly in western-influenced/'traditional' settings. Not sure about Legend of the Five Rings rpg other than that I'd love to see more iaijutsu duels. Would probably play a Crane samurai, probably Kakita duelist or iaijutsu master (all of those are OA d20/3.x classes/PrCs, but I assume there's LotFR versions from the non-d20 systems).

In the 5 Rings (D10) systems, the primary Samurai school for the Crane is a dueling school. How powerful they are varies by system.

Dark Archive

I am pretty sure that Hobart did 1st and 3rd. I played a lot of 1st and I think all of the 3rd edition content you could play outside of a convention.

I have bounced around a lot, but the last few characters have been the Monkey clan. Sadly, they did not exist before the Scorpion Coup so I would probably pick a Samurai from one of the main clans. Currently, I am bouncing around between Lion, Dragon or Crab as interesting ideas.
Sovereign Court

Interested in playing in Rokugan. I have experience playing 3rd and 4th ed but have the 1st ed boooks for the Crab.

I am kicking around the idea of being a Nodachi user like the character from the 7 Samurai. Probably a member of the Matsu school. That should be a lot of fun.

So far, so good.

On the subject of rulesets, is there a System Reference Document for any of the d10 LotFR editions that's available online? I know that I've found the d20 Oriental Adventures book in PDF form online before and it's easy to find the 3.x (I think 3.5, actually) SRD on the official OGL site. But one obvious benefit to PFRPG rules (despite the samurai being lackluster) is that it's easily available via d20pfsrd.com and aonprd.com.

AEG never produced a free version of the rules, aka an SRD. L5R made them a great deal of money, but they never had the marketshare of D&D or MTG.

And L5R was sold as an RPG, a collectible card game, a miniatures wargame, and fiction, all based on the single storyline the company acknowledged as the history of Rokugan. I'm sure there was another line of marketing I've forgotten. AEG really did milk the dickens out of this property!

AEG also sold other D10 settings as independent games. It is a very nice generic engine, really, but they never treated it that way, always tying things directly into a specific setting.

D10 Core mechanic:

Attribute and skill combine to make rolled dice, Attribute determines kept dice.

4K3 (roll 4 dice and keep 3) is a common starting character skill roll, for example.

Any die that comes up a 10 "explodes", and you roll anther die, which can explode, down an infinite progression. All of those explosions count as the same die for the keep mechanic. Total the kept dice to determine the roll.

If you have more rolled dice than 10, the excess is converted (2 dice becomes 1) to kept dice. This is actually a common late game issue for specialists rolling within their specialty. Skill of 10 and attribute of 5 is 15K5, which becomes 10K7, for example.

If you have more kept dice than 10, the excess is converted to "free raises". Each is worth 5 to the total, but they are usually used to justify special maneuvers or called shot kind of activities. "Usually." Kept dice over 10 have been very, very rare in my experience.

There are ways to get dice to "explode" with numbers lower than 10, but they are extraordinarily expensive or late-game options.

The mechanic is used for EVERYTHING. Attack roll? Damage roll?Parry?

The target numbers vary. Defense is based on an attribute and your armor, unless you go on full defense in which case you add the benefit of a Defense skill roll . . .. Your health (hit points) is based on an attribute, too.

A peasant with a stick can roll 1K1 to hit, explode enough to hit, then roll 1K1 for damage, and explode enough to kill a fully armored, uninjured Bushi in one hit. VERY, very rare, but possible. This also means the PCs ALWAYS have a chance at success, no matter how badly outgunned they may be.

Add that chance of success to the Bushido concept that the Samurai is already dead in service to his lord, and you can get some amazing heroic behavior. Some versions of the D10 L5R rules are significantly less lethal than others, providing for a more super-heroics kind of feel to the PC behaviors.

Some of that sounds a bit like the Mechwarrior RPG tabletop game. I played the 3rd edition of that, some.

.
Liberty's Edge

Hey EltonJ

Use to play lots of 1st edition Oriental Adventure, as well as having the books for d20, 3.5 and even FFG Beginners box set. Love the oriental flavour and would love to play!!
Daniel Stewart wrote:

Hey EltonJ

Use to play lots of 1st edition Oriental Adventure, as well as having the books for d20, 3.5 and even FFG Beginners box set. Love the oriental flavour and would love to play!!

Thank you for your vote, Daniel. Hustonj is right about the roll and keep system.

Alright, any one else?
Dark Archive

I vote for one of the roll and keep systems if that is what you are asking for. But I am open to any of the systems.

For me it is six of one half dozen of the other.

I'm intrigued. I've got no opinion on what system.
Dark Archive

A slight change to my vote. I like the d10 system and don't get to play it often, but if you have an adventure(s) that you are considering running, then I think it makes sense to stick to the system that it (mostly if not all) is written in.

I'm familiar with d20/3.x Oriental Adventures, so that's my preference, but I'm also kind of interested to see how one of the d10 systems works. I'd probably prefer not having it be a highly-likely thing that my character dies early on just due to game mechanics, so that may lend itself less to d10 1e than some other d10 edition.

I've got adventures for 1e that I can run.
Dark Archive

So do you want to do 1E? Or would something else be better for you?

It probably works best for pre-Scorpion Coup. Sadly, minor clans only get 3 school ranks if anyone decided to go that route. On the plus side the Way of the Wolf does exist. I am not sure they did a Ronin book in any other edition.

Massively interested.

I have been trying to play L5R forever. I can't even get one I GM to stay running more than a few sessions. I fell in love with the setting when I played a 4e game of L5R like a decade ago, and read all the lore and so much more, but damnit is it hard to find a group.

So, yeah. If you'd like an enthusiastic and dedicated player for this setting, I'm your man. Big fan of the Spider, Scorpion, and Mantis.

I know a lot about the 4e mechanics, timeline, etc, and really dislike the changes to 5e for both crunch and flavor. They neutered the Mantis, those bastards.

Oh, and I should point out, you can find the 4e rules on both magical samurai and last haiku as sort of unofficial SRDs.

Last Haiku even has rules compatible stuff from Legend of the Burning Sands, the RPG based on Rokugan's neighbors.

My last group found everything but Gaijin weaponry and magic rules there.

4e is also timeline neutral, officially existing around the time of the Colonies expansion post Kali invasion, but having rules and details for all eras, as well as alternative timelines like the Togashi Dynasty, a what if Togashi fought in the first tournament where Hantei forms the Owl Clan and the founder of the Dragon instead is the first emperor.

Yeah. I'm biased for 4e. It was an amazing system (but the books are HORRIBLY organized - the SRDs make life easier). Best art and lore of any edition, though.

I've got 4e. Was looking through it the other day.
Dark Archive

The d10 system is pretty close across editions. It probably would be pretty straight forward to run a 1e mod in 4e. I think.

Okay. I'm going to buy the Legend of the Five Rings franchise from Fantasy Flight Games in the future. So, I wanted to GM a L5R campaign for preparation sake. I'm running Starfinder and Shadowrun for my live group, and since because of that, I'm unable to run 5th (FFGs) or anything else Rokugan for my live group.

So, I thought I'd try here.
EltonJ wrote:

Okay. I'm going to buy the Legend of the Five Rings franchise from Fantasy Flight Games in the future. So, I wanted to GM a L5R campaign for preparation sake. I'm running Starfinder and Shadowrun for my live group, and since because of that, I'm unable to run 5th (FFGs) or anything else Rokugan for my live group.

So, I thought I'd try here.

Well I'd say the answer to your query is "yes, there is interest."

I started to look at the Fantasy Flight rules, but couldn't get past the bit where the dice tell you when you break face. The idea that a character raised in that environment as a political player doesn't have better self control than the dice assign is patently wrong. The idea that a player can't choose to break face for story reasons, but has to hope the dice come up around when he wants is just wrong.

Yes, I get that some players will say their characters never fail to maintain on. Mechanics that punish the story to prevent that behavior is really not intelligent game design.

Just an opinion. Don't value it any more than you should.

Ah, yes.
hustonj wrote:

I started to look at the Fantasy Flight rules, but couldn't get past the bit where the dice tell you when you break face. The idea that a character raised in that environment as a political player doesn't have better self control than the dice assign is patently wrong. The idea that a player can't choose to break face for story reasons, but has to hope the dice come up around when he wants is just wrong.

Yes, I get that some players will say their characters never fail to maintain on. Mechanics that punish the story to prevent that behavior is really not intelligent game design.

Just an opinion. Don't value it any more than you should.

I don't like some stuff they did for 5e. One of these was the intrigue rules. d20 handled it better (although the Courtier Class did not come into it's own until the Secrets of the (clan) books).

Sovereign Court

FFG's L5R is the fifth edition and I think the dice is different. I haven't played the 5th ed so I don't know how different it is from roll and keep.

While I haven't played L5R by FFG, I've played their Warhammer and Star Wars games that use a similar system. I found it to be very neat overall.

Yeah, 5e uses custom dice. You can roll with d10s, but it requires a chart. That's one of the issues I have, along with agreeing with everything hustonj said.

One thing I like about the original 1-5e compared to d20 is the schools are not classes. They give you direction, but you can take non-school skills without penalty, and a courtier can be surprisingly deadly with a blade, or a bushi have a ridiculously sharp tongue.

One rule I learned early on as a player long, long ago - take a rank of every social skill, no matter who you are. A verbal flub in front of the wrong person can kill you faster than any Oni. And have a combat skill no matter who you are, because the goblins in the shadowlands don't give a crap how eloquent you are. Not splitting the field evenly, obviously, but not specializing to the point of incompetence in non-class abilities like you would in most RPGs.

Unless, you know, your GM gives you a tip that you won't need such things.

Great, I guess anything other than 5 would be fine considering the cockamamie dice 5e uses. I am really excited.

I see people chiming in near the beginning with what they'd play, but to me that depends on the time/location/theme of the game, and obviously the system.

Would not be wise to play a drunken Yoritomo Mantis Bushi in a courtly intrigue game set before the Mantis became a Great Clan. Not a great idea to play a Scorpion shugenja with a quasi-ninja magic theme when the Scorpion are banished to the Burning Sands.

And it's almost never a good time to play my favorite, the Spider, unless it's the colonies era, or the whole group are spies undermining the Empire before the Spider joined.

I guess I'm asking what's the general theme going to be, besides "before the clan war"

Recruitment Thread

Thanks! Answers my question.

Whelp, I don't have 4th ed, so I will wish you all good luck & good gaming!
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