Equipment advice = weapon (Falcata)


Advice


Playing a falcata swashbuckler) and need advice on my weapon

I am level 7 and want it to be +2 and Adamantine

The thing is I am not sure if 8 should strait +2 or +1 and some tasty +1 ability


Well as a personal preference..... I would go +1 with something tasty


Mechanically, unless you have something to combo with the special ability (an example would be the Cruel weapon enhancement ability on a character with Cornugon Smash). Generically, special abilities are worse on average than simple upgrading to the next +1. Why? It's all about that to hit bonus.

There are a lot of interesting weapon abilities so it's not impossible to find something that would combo with your character, but the default answer is increase the weapon enhancement.


Answering might be fun for a swashbuckler.


Claxon wrote:

Mechanically, unless you have something to combo with the special ability (an example would be the Cruel weapon enhancement ability on a character with Cornugon Smash). Generically, special abilities are worse on average than simple upgrading to the next +1. Why? It's all about that to hit bonus.

There are a lot of interesting weapon abilities so it's not impossible to find something that would combo with your character, but the default answer is increase the weapon enhancement.

Just to add to this - getting to +3 lets you overcome DR vs Cold Iron or and Silver, and since your weapon is already Adamantine and Magic this would let you overcome the 4 most common forms of DR. After +3 you could deviate to more fun abilities.

Of course, as Claxon said the main reason the flat +1 is better is that to-hit bonus is important. If your to-hit is already above what you need then you might not feel the need for this, so you could go nab some fun abilities. While they may not as mechanically strong, they could be more fun, or give you more versatility in your options.

If you're strong enough already then you might as well have some fun.


It really depends on the game, but having built a few Swashbucklers they rarely have a problem actually hitting, and since a level 3 Swashbuckler already lets you intimidate a Cruel weapon is a solid idea.


I just went to check some weapon qualities to see if there's anything fun ...

ANSWERING seems pretty strong for a swashbuckler.

CONFOUNDING is probably not quite as strong, but looks more fun.

The BEWILDERING quality could be fun - the save DC isn't super high, but if you follow avr's advice and get a Cruel weapon you'll be giving them a -4 to their save, so that becomes a bit better.

I just realised how many +1 weapon qualities there are, so I'll stop there before I lose a full days work, but there are some fun things you could add.


I think MrCharisma is spot on with the race to +3 Adamantine weapon to overcome most of what you will likely come across.


What direction are you going with the character?

If you plan on capitalizing on the fun Sunder stuffs, like Falcata Chop and Shattering Chop, then the Confounding weapon enchantment may be of interest to you. The Orange Thorny Ioun Stone gives a +2 to Sunder. If you have Great Sunder the free Sunder attempt will transfer all the excess damage goes to the wielder. You have time to get that all online, though, Falcata Chop doesn't show up until 11.

I highly recommend Upsetting Shield Style to go with your Buckler Bash. Every time you hit someone with your buckler, they take a -2 on attacks against you. You can affect multiple targets with this due to Falcata Flexibility. Although just killing them with the Falcata may be smarter.

Are you playing towards/with Weapon Trick? There's some fun stuff in there.


VoodistMonk wrote:
I highly recommend Upsetting Shield Style to go with your Buckler Bash. Every time you hit someone with your buckler, they take a -2 on attacks against you. You can affect multiple targets with this due to Falcata Flexibility. Although just killing them with the Falcata may be smarter.

I dunno, stacking that -2 with Shaken and Sickened (cruel weapon) takes it to -6 to hit, and that's a pretty noticable debuff.

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Claxon wrote:
Generically, special abilities are worse on average than simple upgrading to the next +1. Why? It's all about that to hit bonus.

Melee characters often want Power Attack or Piranha Strike. Taking (e.g.) Corrosive on your weapon is the equivalent of doing Power Attack for free; you get -1 to hit and +2.5 to damage. This is why Sapping and Vicious are especially good because they're -1 to hit for +6 damage.

Furthermore, if anyone in the party can cast Greater Magic Weapon, then you want to stick to +1 and add special abilities, and use GMW to increase the flat bonus.

I'd go with a fun activated ability first, or possibly Keen.


Ok I Think I'll go (Maybe +3 if I can afford it) we have wealth by level.

I do want to go Upsetting Shield Style but not sure what other featst to take. I'd like to focus on sunder cause of falcata chop but sadly we level up by Milestone and most are games only last 2 to 3 levels almost

And I don't want to build toward something if I won't get there.

I see this guy as chaotic Good being a hero against evil type


avr wrote:
Answering might be fun for a swashbuckler.

Hey you always seem to know the answers.

Could you tell me....

1: Do / Should I need Improved Shield bash
2: my weapon counts a 1H piercing weapon. Can I still take slashing grace to add my dex to damage.


1: As a swashbuckler TWF is probably not your friend. Improved shield bash is for TWFers mostly, and the exceptions aren't swashbucklers.

2: Falcatas don't normally count as 1H piercing weapons, if you have some exception it depends on the exact wording for whether slashing grace would work.


avr wrote:

1: As a swashbuckler TWF is probably not your friend. Improved shield bash is for TWFers mostly, and the exceptions aren't swashbucklers.

2: Falcatas don't normally count as 1H piercing weapons, if you have some exception it depends on the exact wording for whether slashing grace would work.

Oh I'm taking the falcata Duelist archetype.

Can you give me a idea what feats would be good?


Rondelero duelist: 'can treat a falcata as a one-handed piercing melee weapon'. Yeah, you're good to use slashing grace.

It still doesn't make bashing with a shield (via TWF or otherwise) a good idea as far as I can see. Especially if you're using slashing grace which requires you to not use TWF, and which won't work on your buckler.

It does give you a bonus to use your buckler to disarm. You can do this without TWF, but spending feats on making disarm good depends on the campaign a bit. Assuming that it is worthwhile, here's a possible feat list for a level 7 human rondelero duelist swashbuckler:

1: weapon focus (falcata)
Swash 1: weapon finesse
Human: slashing grace
3: dirty fighting
Swash 4: improved disarm
5: power attack
7: numbing blow

I couldn't fit improved shield bash in there so after attempting to disarm someone you'll lose your shield bonus until your next action. Hopefully your enemy will be disarmed and won't be able to take advantage of this.


avr wrote:

Rondelero duelist: 'can treat a falcata as a one-handed piercing melee weapon'. Yeah, you're good to use slashing grace.

It still doesn't make bashing with a shield (via TWF or otherwise) a good idea as far as I can see. Especially if you're using slashing grace which requires you to not use TWF, and which won't work on your buckler.

It does give you a bonus to use your buckler to disarm. You can do this without TWF, but spending feats on making disarm good depends on the campaign a bit. Assuming that it is worthwhile, here's a possible feat list for a level 7 human rondelero duelist swashbuckler:

1: weapon focus (falcata)
Swash 1: weapon finesse
Human: slashing grace
3: dirty fighting
Swash 4: improved disarm
5: power attack
7: numbing blow

I couldn't fit improved shield bash in there so after attempting to disarm someone you'll lose your shield bonus until your next action. Hopefully your enemy will be disarmed and won't be able to take advantage of this.

Ok care to give advice on my stats 20 Point buy.


You need 13+ Str for power attack, 12+ Con, probably 14+ Cha and all the Dex you can get. Str 13, Dex 16+2 race=18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14 is doable on 20 point buy. That leaves your +1 at 4th level; you can plan to reach Dex 20 at 8th level, or else drop Dex to 15+2 race +1 level = 18 which lets you raise Con to 14 or Int to 13 or some such.


Kurald Galain wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Generically, special abilities are worse on average than simple upgrading to the next +1. Why? It's all about that to hit bonus.

Melee characters often want Power Attack or Piranha Strike. Taking (e.g.) Corrosive on your weapon is the equivalent of doing Power Attack for free; you get -1 to hit and +2.5 to damage. This is why Sapping and Vicious are especially good because they're -1 to hit for +6 damage.

Furthermore, if anyone in the party can cast Greater Magic Weapon, then you want to stick to +1 and add special abilities, and use GMW to increase the flat bonus.

I'd go with a fun activated ability first, or possibly Keen.

Sapping deals non-lethal damage, and unless you're building around non-lethal in the first place is often more of a hassle. Especially when you encounter any of the enemies that are commonly immune to non-lethal. This isn't to say it can't be a good idea, but it's not flatly better. Vicious also has a down side of dealing damage to yourself.

And neither deals +6 damage. They deal 2d6 damage, the average of which is 7. At the expense of not adding a +1 to attack and damage while also having other downsides.

Power Attack is also not as good a point of comparison. Power Attack (assuming a two-handed weapon or a one handed weapon wielded in two hands) give +3 to damage for a -1 to attack. But you can also choose not to use it to avoid the penalty to hit. Which is also why you want the bonus to hit from the magical enhancement. Remember if you miss, corrosive and other similar abilities will do nothing.

If you're playing a class that is exceptionally good at buffing your ability to hit like Warpriest or Inquisitor than you may not need to worry about the next enhancement bonus as much. But there are definitely higher trade offs to special abilities. You also have to consider that ever special ability also makes it more expensive to put the next special ability or enhancement bonus onto the weapon.

My preference has always mostly been to use the weapon to help boost my accuracy because the totality of my damage bonuses from various sources is less proportionally affected by not having corrosive/flaming/etc than my to hit bonus by not having the best enhancement bonus I can.

Again though, this is generic advice. Some classes really don't need it. Some classes can cast greater magic weapon.

There's isn't a single one size fits all answer, but in my opinion if you're unsure it's never wrong to go for the enhancement bonus.

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Claxon wrote:
Especially when you encounter any of the enemies that are commonly immune to non-lethal.

Other than undead, there's not a whole lot of enemies immune to non-lethal.

Quote:
And neither deals +6 damage. They deal 2d6 damage, the average of which is 7. At the expense of not adding a +1 to attack and damage

And an average of 7 at the expense of 1 equals what?


Kurald Galain wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Especially when you encounter any of the enemies that are commonly immune to non-lethal.

Other than undead, there's not a whole lot of enemies immune to non-lethal.

Quote:
And neither deals +6 damage. They deal 2d6 damage, the average of which is 7. At the expense of not adding a +1 to attack and damage

And an average of 7 at the expense of 1 equals what?

Not apples to apples since a +1 to hit changes the evaluation.


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Claxon wrote:
Kurald Galain wrote:
Claxon wrote:
And neither deals +6 damage. They deal 2d6 damage, the average of which is 7. At the expense of not adding a +1 to attack and damage
And an average of 7 at the expense of 1 equals what?
Not apples to apples since a +1 to hit changes the evaluation.

This is honestly the worst attempt at moving the goalpost that I've ever seen. The original statement was "-1 to hit for +6 damage" - Kurald Galain did include the lowered attack roll in his evaluation. Meanwhile, your statement that he responded to did talk about a percieved error in the damage part of Kurald Galain's original statement. The (your) statement was objectively wrong, because the average damage bonus is +6 compared to a +1 enhancement bonus upgrade.


Sorry, I should have said it still not apples to apples because not only does the +1 to hit impact the damage evaluation (which is heavily dependent on your relative to hit to the enemies AC and therefore not able to be evaluated in the direct manner that is being done) but also that those weapon special abilities have additional draw backs to them. Like non-lethal damage being resisted or immune for some creatures, or that healing magic cures an equal amount of lethal and non-lethal.

And vicious applies damage to the users.

So it's disingenuous to break it down as a simple "+6 to damage -1 to hit".


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Claxon wrote:
Sorry, I should have said it still not apples to apples because not only does the +1 to hit impact the damage evaluation (which is heavily dependent on your relative to hit to the enemies AC and therefore not able to be evaluated in the direct manner that is being done) but also that those weapon special abilities have additional draw backs to them.

No, you should have said "oops, I wasn't thinking there, my bad. The point about the downsides of nonlethal damage or self-ijury are still valid, though."

Because you screwed up. You said that "And neither deals +6 damage.", but in the context Kurald Galain used (average damage of those enchantments in comparison to a +1 increase in enhancement bonus), those enchantments really do add +6 damage. You should have admitted your mistake (which was really just a tiny brain fart, the kind that all of us make often enough), and moved on, instead of first trying a really terrible attempt at a fallacy, and then trying to caim you were actually talking about something different. Come on, everyone can see that you made the statement in a seperate paragraph.


I simply don't see it the same way.

See you elsewhere.

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