the manipulate trait, which spider form appears to disable.Where are you seeing this? All I see about full Spider Form on the creature details for Anadi Hunter, Anadi Sage, and Anadi Elder is
When in spider form, they can’t use weapons.
But there may be something that I am not seeing.
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Talking about the Anadi ancestry in Lost Omens Mwangi Expanse. Not the creatures.
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the manipulate trait, which spider form appears to disable.Where are you seeing this? All I see about full Spider Form on the creature details for Anadi Hunter, Anadi Sage, and Anadi Elder isWhen in spider form, they can’t use weapons.But there may be something that I am not seeing.
On the Anadi ancestry page in the new Mwangi Expanse book, it says they can’t use weapons, shields, or other held items of any kind, and that they cannot take any action that has the manipulate trait so long as they are in their spider form.
It's a bit of a harsh restriction, and I believe it's been flagged for review in terms of at least casting spells (from what I read in the Arcane Mark Discord server). Maybe being able to do the Release action is needed, too. Or at least explain how they can balance a thing on their leg and then drop it via choosing not to balance it anymore.
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Sorry, yes, I am indeed talking about the new Ancestry.
For some greater detail, the Shapechange ability inherent to the ancestry allows Anadi to change between their natural spider form and a human form.
Their spider form has some unique restrictions which seem overly harsh, the biggest of which is that they cannot use any action with the manipulate trait.
Not only does this fly in the face of the lore that’s been established as great weavers while spiders (as they can’t craft) it also means that certain feats of theirs, such as the 13th level one, can only be done in their hybrid form - which is itself a feat.
My main concern however is the more mundane mechanical ones. Without being able to manipulate in their spider form, Anadi can’t Interact to use / pick up objects nor can they Release to drop anything they do manage to hold.
It just poses a serious logistical question for them to be able to function as a species.
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That seems like a big step to take. I agree that if the idea of their being subclasses of Manipulate from the beginning, then something like that would be fine. But it would be too big of an introduction at this point.
The easiest solution would be to errata Anadi Shapechange to restrict whatever specific actions that the devs were trying to remedy with the Manipulate clause in the first place, and remove the general prohibition on the action.
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We need a subclass of Manipulate actions that will be out of reach for spiders and similar. I propose Dexterous actions.
There already are simple Interact actions: see Skillful Tail [Tiefling Feat].
"You can perform simple Interact actions with your tail such as opening an unlocked door. Your tail can't perform actions that require fingers or significant manual dexterity, including any action that would require a check to accomplish, and you can't use it to hold items."
We need a subclass of Manipulate actions that will be out of reach for spiders and similar. I propose Dexterous actions.
They tend to resolve those kinds of things with descriptive language and leaving it up to the GM. As graystone pointed out, there's even some abilities that already have that kind of distinction. Since it sounds like it's being reviewed I'm guessing they'll do something similar for spider form in the future and they're just looking at the wording that they want to use for it. Unfortunately with how busy they are it might be a while, but it's simple enough to homebrew in the meantime.
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We need a subclass of Manipulate actions that will be out of reach for spiders and similar. I propose Dexterous actions.There already are simple Interact actions: see Skillful Tail [Tiefling Feat].
"You can perform simple Interact actions with your tail such as opening an unlocked door. Your tail can't perform actions that require fingers or significant manual dexterity, including any action that would require a check to accomplish, and you can't use it to hold items."
Indeed, this is perfect, and should be standard wording for such a common occurrence.
Indeed, this is perfect, and should be standard wording for such a common occurrence.We need a subclass of Manipulate actions that will be out of reach for spiders and similar. I propose Dexterous actions.There already are simple Interact actions: see Skillful Tail [Tiefling Feat].
"You can perform simple Interact actions with your tail such as opening an unlocked door. Your tail can't perform actions that require fingers or significant manual dexterity, including any action that would require a check to accomplish, and you can't use it to hold items."
Myself, I'd remove the end of the last sentence "and you can't use it to hold items" for an Anadi in spider form. With 8 limbs available, I think you could manage to pick up something by using multiple limbs to do so in a way a single tail couldn't. This is especially true if Anadi have some kind of climbing ability [I haven't seen the book yet], which would imply their limbs can 'stick' to surfaces: it'd be kind of lame if they can spider climb up a wall but can't manage to stick to a rope.
Page 99 of the Character Guide shows an Anadi in spider form carrying a tray of snacks over to a table. I guess that's not possible.
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Page 99 of the Character Guide shows an Anadi in spider form carrying a tray of snacks over to a table. I guess that's not possible.
Nothing is stopping an Anadi in spider form from doing that... An Anadi PC though, is out of luck. It's not like it's odd PC's are quite lacking vs npc's of the same race: a sprite PC would have to use every ancestry feat from 1st to 17th to match a -1 level npc sprite's abilities base abilities [innate spells, fly speed, spark]...
Page 99 of the Character Guide shows an Anadi in spider form carrying a tray of snacks over to a table. I guess that's not possible.Nothing is stopping an Anadi in spider form from doing that... An Anadi PC though, is out of luck. It's not like it's odd PC's are quite lacking vs npc's of the same race: a sprite PC would have to use every ancestry feat from 1st to 17th to match a -1 level npc sprite's abilities base abilities [innate spells, fly speed, spark]...
I see. I didn't realize it was PC specific. Thanks.