Contributor
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Here is my understanding:
You can only use the adopted ancestry boon with CORE races without a boon. That means for now that if you want kobold feats, you should play a kobold.
In the future, I hope to see more ACP boons for adopted ancestries. I also hope to see the existing Adopted Ancestry 1 boon expanded to include ancestry hobgoblin, leshy and iruxi feats that come from other books. But with Convention season upon us, I don't expect to see new adopted ancestry boons until after online GenCon is over. Our poor OP Leadership team will have their hands full until then!
Hmm
Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku
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Here is my understanding:
You can only use the adopted ancestry boon with CORE races without a boon. That means for now that if you want kobold feats, you should play a kobold.
I'm 97% sure this isn't correct. Adopted ancestry doesn't say anything about core races:
Choose a common ancestry. You can select ancestry feats from the ancestry you chose, in addition to your character’s own ancestry, as long as the ancestry feats don’t require any physiological feature that you lack, as determined by the GM.
From the guide:
Access: Players can access uncommon or rare options via access points built into the campaign. If you satisfy the access condition specified in that option, then that option is common for you.
From character options:
Ancestries: Due to years of successful Pathfinder Society activities, all characters have access to the kobold ancestry (page 12).
So, Everybody has access to kobolds, everything you have access to is common for you, the adopted ancestry feat says you can select a common ancestry -> the actual boon has nothing to do with this, you can freely select the feat and pick kobolds as your adoptive parents.
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From the guide:
Access: Players can access uncommon or rare options via access points built into the campaign. If you satisfy the access condition specified in that option, then that option is common for you.
I feel like I’ve heard that the guide is not correct here, at least from a PF2 rules perspective. Uncommon + access shouldn’t really be common. It’s still Uncommon, but you have access and can therefore select that rules option. But that’s up to the org play / guide team to address.
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That was my understanding, too, First World Bard, but Jared reiterated the "treats it as common for *all* purposes" language HERE when I asked about access to Uncommon scrolls, so I have to assume it's a PFS Campaign rule, independent of the PF2 rules.
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In the standard PF2 rules, only the ancestries in the Core Rulebook are common. So what you would need to get Adopted Ancestry (Kobold) to work would be some PFS-specific language to the effect that Kobold is a common ancestry or should be treated as a common ancestry. Some posts in this thread suggests that such language does exist.
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Contributor
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I'd like to be wrong, mind. I am really hoping to see Jared or Alex Speidel post in here and say that you can be adopted by Kobolds. Though... If you are, many of the most popular kobold feats (like dragonbreath) are probably restricted by physiology.
Hmm
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Ancestries: Due to years of successful Pathfinder Society activities, all characters have access to the kobold ancestry (page 12).
Players can access uncommon or rare options via access points built into the campaign. If you satisfy the access condition specified in that option, then that option is common for you.
However there's no boon I know of titled Adopted Ancestry, so I'm not sure how to put together the final piece of the questions.
There's the Adopted Ancestry feat and the Ancestral Adoption 1 boon. Which one are we talking about?
The Adopted Ancestry feat lets you take feats associated with a chosen common ancestry.
The Ancestral Adoption 1 boon (which appears to no longer be available) let you buy access to using that feat for races from the Lost Omens Character Guide.
So I am pretty sure that it is the feat that we are primarily talking about, with possible support from additional boons in the format of the old Ancestral Adoption I boon.
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That was my understanding, too, First World Bard, but Jared reiterated the "treats it as common for *all* purposes" language HERE when I asked about access to Uncommon scrolls, so I have to assume it's a PFS Campaign rule, independent of the PF2 rules.
That is correct. In a normal campaign, a GM can adjudicate how *much* access you get to an uncommon option (does access mean it becomes common? Does access mean you can get one, but you need to go on a quest to get another one?)
In PFS, there needs to be a simple, universal, adjudication for these things. And in this case, the adjudication is "if you have access treat it as common for all rules purposes." (This would be the same as a GM ruling that for the purpose of their campaign, all Items with a specific regional access were common, because the campaign is set in that region.
The more limited access (you can buy these, but they are still uncommon, and you can't treat them as common) is represented in PFS by items that say Limit: #.
Note that when the guide contradicts the core rules, it is (almost always) intentional, and it is not "wrong" but rather is overriding those core rules.
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I'd like to be wrong, mind. I am really hoping to see Jared or Alex Speidel post in here and say that you can be adopted by Kobolds. Though... If you are, many of the most popular kobold feats (like dragonbreath) are probably restricted by physiology.
Hmm
It is certainly my understanding that based on the statement above, you can use adopted ancestry with Kobold.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku
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What I like about the Ancestral Adoption Boon is that it lists all the feats that are acceptable for said ancestries. We've also gained some specific clarifications like the "ancient elf" not being allowed for the Elf Atavism feat (Not exactly adopted ancestry, but the mechanic is similar) - I kinda hope we'd get similar lists for the other races too, "which feats don’t require any physiological feature that you lack".
Like with Kobolds, s "Cringe" Okay to take, or is "pitiful posturing" a physiological feature that non-kobolds lack?
What about Dragon's Presence?
(and at least half a dozen other kobold feats. And other ancestries too!)
What I like about the Ancestral Adoption Boon is that it lists all the feats that are acceptable for said ancestries. We've also gained some specific clarifications like the "ancient elf" not being allowed for the Elf Atavism feat (Not exactly adopted ancestry, but the mechanic is similar) - I kinda hope we'd get similar lists for the other races too, "which feats don’t require any physiological feature that you lack".
Like with Kobolds, s "Cringe" Okay to take, or is "pitiful posturing" a physiological feature that non-kobolds lack?
What about Dragon's Presence?
(and at least half a dozen other kobold feats. And other ancestries too!)
One big clue that an Ancestry feat refers to an inborn physical feature is language to the effect that you cannot retrain into or out of that feat.
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One big clue that an Ancestry feat refers to an inborn physical feature is language to the effect that you cannot retrain into or out of that feat.
That language is sufficient, but not necessary. I hope we can agree that Kobold Breath is due to an inborn physical feature, but that is a feat that may be retrained.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku
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What I like about the Ancestral Adoption Boon is that it lists all the feats that are acceptable for said ancestries. We've also gained some specific clarifications like the "ancient elf" not being allowed for the Elf Atavism feat (Not exactly adopted ancestry, but the mechanic is similar) - I kinda hope we'd get similar lists for the other races too, "which feats don’t require any physiological feature that you lack".
Like with Kobolds, s "Cringe" Okay to take, or is "pitiful posturing" a physiological feature that non-kobolds lack?
What about Dragon's Presence?
(and at least half a dozen other kobold feats. And other ancestries too!)One big clue that an Ancestry feat refers to an inborn physical feature is language to the effect that you cannot retrain into or out of that feat.
That only works one way, though. If a feat can't be retrained, then it's probably related to physical features. If a feat -can- be retrained, that tells nothing about if it's related to physical features.
Aaaand even then that isn't really bullet proof. I mean:You learn formulas more easily. You gain four common 1st-level alchemical formulas when you take this feat, and each time you gain a level, you gain a common alchemical formula of that level. You still need Alchemical Crafting to Craft alchemical items.
This feat in no way implies any physiological requirements, yet it's restricted in that you can't retrain into or out of it.
(frankly, I disagree with the "no retraining into or out of" restrictions. They make 0 sense. Or rather, they try to make sense on some twisted logical level but fail to do so on a larger scale:
Tusks: You can't retrain into these, but you can retrain out of them. Gotta pick at 1st level.
Elemental eyes: have to pick at 1st level, can't retrain into or out of.
Ember eyes: In addition to the above feat, Ifrit's have another feat which -can- be taken later than 1st level and does the same thing, and -can- be taken again even later to get darkvision. One of the elemental ancestries that has poorer eyesight than the others, gets better options to improving them than the others? Why?
Winglets: You can freely grow, shed, and regrow your winglets as you please, no restrictions.
Tail: If you want to hit something with a tail, you gotta take it at 1st level if you're a tiefling, but not if you're a lizardfolk. Can't retrain into or out of if tiefling, can retrain your tail freely if lizardfolk. Also, if you want the useless "can use my tail for stuff but not really" feat, that one you can grab anytime you want.
So. Whether you can suddenly grow a tail or not depends on a whim of a specific writer, not any kind of internal or consistent rules "rules")
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So, Everybody has access to kobolds, everything you have access to is common for you, the adopted ancestry feat says you can select a common ancestry -> the actual boon has nothing to do with this, you can freely select the feat and pick kobolds as your adoptive parents.
If this is not correct I'm about to be big sadge cause it means a GM baby of mine is actually wrong. I read the rules and followed order of operations and everything. :<