Is there anything stopping a ranger from taking the faithful combat style of a deity they don't worship?


Advice

Silver Crusade

Cause im looking all over and there is nothing that says i cant


Do you mean Divine Fighting Styles? If so, I don't think there's any mechanical reason why you shouldn't be able to, since they're specifically called out as being avail even if you don't worship the associated patron, but since this isn't a Rules thread I'd just say consult your GM first. There may be a narrative reason why some deities and their styles are off limits.

The Exchange

Pretty sure Malik is talking about the Ranger Combat Styles from Inner Sea Combat. And yes, there is something stopping you from doing so. It's in the introductory paragraph, not in the individual combat styles.

Inner Sea Combat page 11 wrote:
The most prominent gods of the Inner Sea region are detailed on pages 218-227 of The Inner Sea World Guide. Rangers who worship them may take the following fighting styles.


There are some divine fighting techniques that require the character to worship a deity and some that merely require you to have a matching alignment. For this particular question, Belafon has it right.


Remember that you can worship multiple deities if you're conflicted over which to choose, provided you aren't a cleric (who require a degree more devotion):

James Jacobs wrote:
If you want to worship, say, Erastil, Abadar, Iomedae, and Ragathiel, that's fine... but you have to worship them all more or less equally. That means you could be a paladin and inquisitor and even a mystery cultist... but you could not be a cleric.
James Jacobs wrote:
Mattastrophic wrote:

Are people in Golarion able to seriously worship multiple deities? Or are they confined to only one?

-Matt

They do it all the time. Oracles are more or less built to do this. When you worship multiple deities, your faith is NOT all about singling one deity out, and the alignment restrictions become less and less significant.

If its a PFS legal build though, I believe theres a restriction on only mechanically benefitting from one deity. Im not 100% on the PFS side of things though.

Silver Crusade

For the purposes of when mechanics are involved you can only “worship” one deity.

You can worship/venerate as many deities as you like as long as they don’t conflict if mechanics aren’t involved.


Yep, that's the one. I've not done any PFS stuff.

For home games though, james jacobs has been clear a few times in a few different threads that multiple deity worship is fine. That first quote I posted was in response to someone asking "can a LG character be simultaneously a Paladin of Iomedae, an Inquisitor of Erastil, a Cleric of Abadar and a Mystery Cultist of Ragathiel ?" The only one James Jacobs ruled would be an issue is the cleric.

If that ruling is good enough for paizo creative director its good enough for my games!

The Exchange

I'm pretty sure that quote and others like it are from the "ask James Jacobs all your question here" thread. James takes pains many times in that thread (especially early on) to say that he is not a "rules guy" and that when he answers such questions, you shouldn't take them as official Paizo policy. Answers in that thread are how he would run things in a home game. Even if how he's running isn't strictly "by the book."

This causes a lot of heartburn because at various times James was close to the *only* Paizo person answering actual questions about gameplay. With the design team largely silent (because they didn't want to say something and then retract it later), James's posts took on weight beyond what he intended.

Having said that, this is the advice forum, not the rules forum. So feel free to play that way if it makes sense for your game.

The Exchange

I just found the quote you are referencing, Firesnout. It's a little hard to parse but James is most definitely NOT saying that he would allow a PC to simultaneously be a Paladin of Iomedae, an Inquisitor of Erastil, etc. and choose options (like a Combat Style) from each of them.

James Jacobs wrote:
The black raven wrote:

Can a character worship different gods (while respecting the alignment rule) and use these to qualify for different classes (base or Prestige).

For example, can a LG character be simultaneously a Paladin of Iomedae, an Inquisitor of Erastil, a Cleric of Abadar and a Mystery Cultist of Ragathiel ?

Depends on your GM.

I would not allow it, though, because devotion to one deity implies that you're following that deity's rules and ethos and all that, and if you're doing that with multiple deities, you're not following any one deity's teachings well enough to deserve to gain power from that deity.

If you want to worship, say, Erastil, Abadar, Iomedae, and Ragathiel, that's fine... but you have to worship them all more or less equally. That means you could be a paladin and inquisitor and even a mystery cultist... but you could not be a cleric.

It looks like James is saying that he would allow a multiclass paladin/inquisitor/mystery cultist but not give them access to any abilities that were granted by a specific deity (like a domain).

Superkey phrase? "Depends on your GM."


Belafon wrote:

I just found the quote you are referencing, Firesnout. It's a little hard to parse but James is most definitely NOT saying that he would allow a PC to simultaneously be a Paladin of Iomedae, an Inquisitor of Erastil, etc. and choose options (like a Combat Style) from each of them.

It looks like James is saying that he would allow a multiclass paladin/inquisitor/mystery cultist but not give them access to any abilities that were granted by a specific deity (like a domain).

Im not sure where you're getting that interpretation from, ignoring paladin (who can have many options like deity unique bonus spells etc), inquisitors specifically get inquisitions/domains that are mechanically tied to a deity in the same way cleric domains are and mystery cultist boons are always mechanically tied to deity. So it seems unlikely he'd respond to a question about being "a Paladin of Iomedae, an Inquisitor of Erastil, a Cleric of Abadar and a Mystery Cultist of Ragathiel" by saying you could be the paladin, inquisitor AND the mystery cultist if you couldn't. He only takes issue with the cleric, specifically, (which there would be no reason to do if he was assuming the character was taking "spiritual inclination" options for all the classes instead of following a deity like the question asked.)

Quote:
Superkey phrase? "Depends on your GM."

Obviously! This is a home game we're talking about. Everything depends on GM and some might want to limit things more. Paizo has been vocal about less lines being drawn in non-pfs stuff.

Restriction to one deity is done in PFS to keep things simple and when questions are discussed in the rules forum its largely based on being restrictive for pfs and pfs-like games. AFAIK there's nothing to be found in rules books limiting to only one deity, ergo, if this is a home game ask your GM, they'll probably be fine with it unless they're running pfs-style rules.

James Jacobs opinion may not be a hard ruling, (despite his quotes being used constantly to back up rules arguments over in the rules forums), but as i said before, if its good enough for paizo's creative director its good enough for my games. (But your games may choose to be different)

As this is the advice forum, my advice is to ask your GM if they're wanting to restrict you to one deity. If not, go ahead, have fun. It is a game after all.


Firesnout wrote:
Remember that you can worship multiple deities if you're conflicted over which to choose, provided you aren't a cleric (who require a degree more devotion):

I don't think so. Throughout the CRB every mention of dieties in regards to PCs is singular (e.g. "When a living creature dies, its soul departs its body, leaves the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature’s deity resides." pg. 208). On the character sheet, there's a line for "deity", not "deities".

Additionally, being allowed to worship multiple deities completely negates the purpose of deity-specific abilities. Why do these "must worship X" prereqs and stuff even exist if you can just say your character worships every existing deitiy at the same time?


Derklord wrote:
Firesnout wrote:
Remember that you can worship multiple deities if you're conflicted over which to choose, provided you aren't a cleric (who require a degree more devotion):

I don't think so. Throughout the CRB every mention of dieties in regards to PCs is singular (e.g. "When a living creature dies, its soul departs its body, leaves the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature’s deity resides." pg. 208). On the character sheet, there's a line for "deity", not "deities".

Additionally, being allowed to worship multiple deities completely negates the purpose of deity-specific abilities. Why do these "must worship X" prereqs and stuff even exist if you can just say your character worships every existing deitiy at the same time?

James jacobs has already addressed that polytheists and those that worship multiple deities get sent to the deity whose soul best fits when they're judged. I found that when looking for the quotes i posted, but im sure you can google the quotes up too.

He also said that you can only have multiple deities if they're deities that get along / dont object to your other choices in deities, because (subject to GM discretion) most good deities would not be best pleased if you tried to worship a demon or those with opposite portfolios, and some are just too prideful/egotistical to share worship. Again, stumbled on that one too.

Again, it may be how he runs games (and outside of pfs you're free to do the same) but if you want to restrict to only one deity you're just as free to do so.


You're really looking at what your GM thinks here.

For myself, I was the GM then no. Your character will need to worship the specific deity, and may only benefit mechanically from worship of 1 deity.

So you can't "venerate" multiple deities and use one for Inquisitor powers and another for Divine fighting feats.

I simply don't view deities as being that willing to share worshippers.


Firesnout wrote:
James jacobs has already addressed that polytheists and those that worship multiple deities get sent to the deity whose soul best fits when they're judged.

I don't give a f&!@ what James Jacobs wrote on the topic. These posts don't set the company policy. If you look through the book(s), it's clear that the game rules are written with the presumption that characters worship a single deity (for mechanical purposes, at least).

Why would I want to google up some irrelevant quotes? I can just look through the books (PDFs, rather) to see what the official position on the issue is.

"Although many people choose to worship a single deity, it's not uncommon to pay momentary or otherwise limited homage to a wider range of deities who watch over various aspects of their lives." ibid. Notice how it refers to "worship" for the main (also called patron) deity and "pay homage" for deities recieving the occational prayer? Now, what phrase did the the Faithful Combat section in ISC use? "Rangers who worship them may take the following fighting styles." Huh.


Firesnout wrote:


He also said that you can only have multiple deities if they're deities that get along / dont object to your other choices in deities, because (subject to GM discretion) most good deities would not be best pleased if you tried to worship a demon or those with opposite portfolios, and some are just too prideful/egotistical to share worship. Again, stumbled on that one too.

So deities that are specifically allies in Golarion lore would probably be safe according to him? I assume Shimye-Magalla worshipers would be able to take Desna and Gozreh options since their deity is both of them smashed together somehow.

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