Arcane Trickster build revisited

[Skrayper]

So I talked about this before, an idea for playing an Arcane Trickster.

My current build is this:

Tattooed Sorcerer 4 / Unchained Rogue 1 / Arcane Trickster 10
Race: Gathlain (Tree-Born)
Feats:
1. Skill Focus Disguise
2. Eldritch Heritage (Shapechanger)
3. Improved Eldritch Heritage (Shapechanger - Mutable Flesh)
4. Leadership (Hospitaler Paladin w/ healing focus, but also the Kool-Aid man feat)
Feats 5-7 I'm still debating on.

Bonus Feat: Mage's Tattoo (Evocation)
Bloodline: Orc

Primary Spell for Mutable Flesh - Fey Form III. Sprite lets me get the following:
+8 size to dexterity_bonus
-4 size to strength_bonus
+12 size to stealth_bonus
+6 size to fly_bonus
+4 to fly_bonus
+4 size to Armor
+4 size to attack_bonus
Fly Speed 60'

Stealth currently with gear is 44.

Starting gear:
Ring of Inner Fortitude, Major (we encounter a lot of ability damage/drain stuff)
Ring of Evasion
Silken Ceremonial Armor +1, Shadow (probably overkill, but eh)
Otherworldly Kimono
Belt of Physical Might Dex/Con +4
Shifter's Headband +4 CHA (to switch to Quickling if necessary)
Lenses of Darkness combined with Eyes of the Eagle
Numerology Cylinder
Rod of Metamagic Empower, Lesser

With the remaining feats, I've been debating between:
1. Pure fireball build. Take Widen Spell, then Magic Tricks Cluster Bomb and Concentrated Fire
2. Fireball burst plus Quicken - I only have the 1 7th level spell and 4 level 7 slots. Take Quicken to make good use of those, plus either Cluster Bomb and another feat, or Widen Spell and Concentrated Fire.
3. Backstabby - take Weapon Focus and Slashing Grace (for a fairly powerful weapon in the party), 1 feat remaining. Probably Heighten Spell.
4. Now you see me, now you don't - Cohort takes Magic Trick - Daylight for hours of daylight, and I take Skill Focus Stealth and Hellcat Stealth. 1 feat for metamagic.

Cluster bomb removes the need for heighten spell at least.

Looking at those 4 I'm debating on, what looks most appealing? I do have a spell or two for dealing with golems (roaming pit and black tentacles), so I don't NEED to be all stabby.

Thoughts?

[TxSam88]

I think you've gone overkill on the stealth, especially considering that as a 10th level Arcane Trickster you can Greater Invis as a SLA.

None of your feats or anything help with your attack or damage values, so you'll be wasting your sneak attack dice most of the time. IMO Arcane Tricksters should be used as a striker that can self buff, but it looks like you have built a stealthy caster I think??

[Skrayper]

Well, the first three feats allow me to stay as a Sprite all day (hence the buffs I listed). So now I'm trying to make the best of it. Stealth was just that high because of those buffs honestly, but the bonus to attack between the dex and the size is pretty decent at offsetting the low BAB.

So now just trying to figure out how to take full advantage of that, damage wise.

Oh, and I do have the feat that boosts sneak attack damage to only need one level of rogue.

[VoodistMonk]

I would choose one of your Fireball options, and send it.

Arcane Trickster offers enough fun/random stuff to open up your options and utility, so whatever big-bada-boom stuffs you think suits your party's needs best should be fine.

I don't honestly see that much difference between options 1 and 2, so I am going to advise you to choose option 1.5, and send it.

[avr]

Improved eldritch heritage requires character level 11+ & leadership requires character level 7+, make sure you get those at the right times. You'll need a feat to be accomplished sneak attacker in order to qualify for the prestige class, which cuts off the 3-feat options.

[*Khan*]

Twilight Knife Spell could actually be of use if you need to go into melee.
Fiery Shuriken could also be cool because of the sheer number of ranged attack rolls.

[TxSam88]

Like I mentioned, IMO Arcane Tricksters should be strikers. take advantage of that Improved Invisibility, go TWF, Buff yourself and get in as much backstab as you can. When I played one, I was getting about 150 damage per round on a regular basis.

[VoodistMonk]

For a melee-focused Arcane Trickster, Snakebite Striker Brawler is a better source of Sneak Attack... higher BAB and better saves, as well as higher starting hit die.

Then, after your spellcasting levels, you only take one or two levels of Arcane Trickster before going into Evangelist... choose Arcane Trickster as your Aligned Class. Now you are at least a 3/4 BAB Arcane Trickster, with more fun stuff you can do from Evangelist.

Sure, it puts you a level behind in Arcane Trickster and spell progression, but honestly, the trade-off is worth it. The good thing about using Sorcerer is you get +2 BAB at the same time as your prerequisite 2nd level spells. Whereas a Wizard only nets a +1 BAB when they achieve their 2nd level spells.

[Skrayper]

I actually realized I was still working off of when I was planning on making it a wizard; I can save the 3 feats by simply being a Shapechanger Bloodline Sorc, taking one more level in it, and then getting a Robe of Arcane Heritage. I won't have Surprise Spells YET, but only 1 level away.

I figured that was worth saving 3 feats.

My only worry is doing TOO much damage, for fear of making others feel useless. I know some folks theorycraft characters that can Widen and then shrink fireball along with cluster bombs and concentrated fire to do absurd levels of damage.

Fiery Shuriken - that still only gets 1 SA, unless you're hitting a different targets with each one right? Or only with the first one regardless, like with Scorching Ray?

Regarding Brawler - still wanted to get Disable Device and the like, but I'm not opposed to it. Would the extra +1 on BAB be worth it? I plan on sticking with spell casting progression, so I'd go back to Sorc once AT is done.

I would only take the Evangelist if I go Wizard and take the Heritage feats. The character's goal is to be this tiny pixie and I need 7th level spells to do so.

If I just go Shapechanger bloodline, I only have 1 feat that is a MUST so far (accomplished sneak attacker) and one feat for a cohort that fits the concept (Leadership). That leaves 6 feats.

Drawback is that now I'm no longer using the kimono (both are body slot items). I can cover the save bonuses easily enough, but will definitely be looking into ways to boost my caster level checks. It's either that, or split between backstabs and spell damage so that high SR targets don't immediately make me useless. (I legit don't know the average SR for level 15 encounters).

I guess it helps if I say that the RP premise behind the character is someone who was raised by Fey, to the point of obsession. They have longed to resemble the creatures that raised them, specifically pixies, and so the primary requirement for the character is the ability to cast Fey Form III (and take on the shape).
Well, there's more to it than that, but that's been the goal - Fey Form III, be like those that raised them.

Me, the player, have always wanted to play Arcane Trickster. Going Sorc over Wizard because while I know Wizards are more versatile and get higher level spells, I like the "no prep" aspect - and also, handling spell books with prestige classes is a pain. Lots of bookkeeping when you don't get the automatic spells per level.

[Tarock]

Skrayper wrote:

Fiery Shuriken - that still only gets 1 SA, unless you're hitting a different targets with each one right? Or only with the first one regardless, like with Scorching Ray?

You get only 1 SA because your BAB is not the reason of multiple attacks.

" Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?

No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target). "

Frigid Touch gets more SA
Fiery Shuriken gets 1 SA

[Skrayper]

Frigid Touch still only gets to attack once. I'm not sure how it gets more SA?

I'm thinking of something a bit different; because I don't have a lot lined up for my highest level slots, I think I'll use a 1-h weapon with slashing grace, and use quicken spell to cast as well (like scorching ray, then next level magic missile to take advantage of surprise spells)

[*Khan*]

Tarock wrote:

Skrayper wrote:

Fiery Shuriken - that still only gets 1 SA, unless you're hitting a different targets with each one right? Or only with the first one regardless, like with Scorching Ray?

You get only 1 SA because your BAB is not the reason of multiple attacks.

" Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?

No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target). "

Frigid Touch gets more SA
Fiery Shuriken gets 1 SA

Yeah you are right.

But if you use a swift action i each round to fire a single Fiery Shuriken then you get a SA on every shuriken until you have used them all (if the conditions for SA is met).

[Tarock]

Skrayper wrote:

Frigid Touch still only gets to attack once. I'm not sure how it gets more SA?

I'm thinking of something a bit different; because I don't have a lot lined up for my highest level slots, I think I'll use a 1-h weapon with slashing grace, and use quicken spell to cast as well (like scorching ray, then next level magic missile to take advantage of surprise spells)

I meant Chill Touch

*Khan* wrote:

Tarock wrote:

Skrayper wrote:

Fiery Shuriken - that still only gets 1 SA, unless you're hitting a different targets with each one right? Or only with the first one regardless, like with Scorching Ray?

You get only 1 SA because your BAB is not the reason of multiple attacks.

" Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?

No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target). "

Frigid Touch gets more SA
Fiery Shuriken gets 1 SA

Yeah you are right.

But if you use a swift action i each round to fire a single Fiery Shuriken then you get a SA on every shuriken until you have used them all (if the conditions for SA is met).

The swift action per round Fiery Shuriken is a nice trick i wasen´t aware of, thank you.