| Wolfiej |
Hi there,
When targeting a creature that has spell resistance with Force Hook Charge and then failing to beat its SR, what happens?
Does:
A: The spell fail to cast and nothing happens. (This appears to be correct as per RAW).
B: The damage of the spell is negated due to spell resistance. The caster then is pulled towards the target (regardless of the fact that the target resisted the spell.
C: Something else?
| Chell Raighn |
I’m inclined to believe it is option B. The reasoning for this is because force hook charge performs its movement regardless of if the spell hits the target or not. Resisting via spell resistance is the same as if the spell missed, you deal no damage as the spell has no effect on the target, but you as the target of the secondary effect of the spell are still pulled to the target location.
It’s really no different than if you cast teleport and the person you are touching resists the teleport. The spell still takes full effect on you, but fails to affect your target.
Diego Rossi
|
Whether or not the touch attack hits, the force hook drags you in a straight line to a square adjacent to the target.
SR negates the effect of a spell on the target of the spell, it doesn't negate the spell. A fireball isn't canceled because someone with SR resists it. A wall of fire doesn't collapse because someone with SR passes it without taking damage.
The same thing for Force Hook Charge, SR negates if for the target, but it doesn't negate the other effects of the spell.| Wolfiej |
Thanks for the feedback all! This is a very niché case.
It’s really no different than if you cast teleport and the person you are touching resists the teleport.
That was a fascinating response. This got me where I needed to be. Thank you Chell! Although, Teleport doesn't give non-willing characters a spell resistance roll, they automatically ignore effects. The SR is purely for attended objects. This is why you knock out non-willing targets. :3
Target: you and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
Spell Resistance no and yes (object)
So using this as an example, I can see where the issue is.
Target: one creature or object within range and you
Spell: Resistance yes
Both spells target "you" and "creature/touched", although in a different order. The problem is that the SR for Teleport has two separate entries for SR, while Force Hook Charge doesn't and should. I guess it was an assumption that "Why would a caster want to resist a personal/you spell?" and personal spells don't generally have SR, i.e. Bladed Dash.
So yeah, short answer is that it should be B, but due to the slight omission it is A, but we really shouldn't play it as that.
Diego Rossi
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So yeah, short answer is that it should be B, but due to the slight omission it is A, but we really shouldn't play it as that.
The "omission" doesn't change anything.
If a spell affects multiple creatures or objects, the SR applies only to the part of the spell that affects the creature/object with spell resistance.The caster doesn't need to check his own SR, and the part of the spell that affects the caster will work.
Name Violation
|
Unless you are under the effects of a very specific curse, you never apply your own spell resistance to spells you cast, which is why the spell resistance entry never mentions the caster and only ever cares about the target.
Good catch
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).
A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.
| Ryze Kuja |
Whether or not the touch attack hits, the force hook drags you in a straight line to a square adjacent to the target.
I know this----^ quote doesn't specifically say if the spell misses due to SR, but I'm in agreement with the others insofar that if SR causes the target to ignore the spell, they would ignore the damage, but your spell still goes off whether it hits the target or not, and therefore you would still be pulled adjacent to the target. A Hook of Force is still generated whether the ranged attack "misses" or SR causes it to to not affect the target, and you would still be pulled to that location.
I know there's an argument to be made that the entire spell is negated, but I would respectfully disagree. Because if you think about how this spell works even if you miss the Ranged Touch Attack against the target, it still "latches" onto "nothing" in that square and pulls you towards it. You don't actually need to hit a target for the "yoink" portion of this spell to work. So even if the target successfully resists the force hook with SR, it doesn't stop the force hook from "latching" onto "nothing" in that square and pulling you adjacent to that location.
| Chell Raighn |
I know there's an argument to be made that the entire spell is negated, but I would respectfully disagree. Because if you think about how this spell works even if you miss the Ranged Touch Attack against the target, it still "latches" onto "nothing" in that square and pulls you towards it. You don't actually need to hit a target for the "yoink" portion of this spell to work. So even if the target successfully resists the force hook with SR, it doesn't stop the force hook from "latching" onto "nothing" in that square and pulling you adjacent to that location.
Exactly... basically think of spell resistance as an invisible magic married that might stop the hook before it impacts the target and then the hook simply falls and latches onto the ground the same as if the touch attack has simply missed... you’re always going to latch onto something in the targets space even if you don’t latch onto them directly.