Mount with Panicked Condition, does rider have any degree of control?


Rules Questions


Ride Rules: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/ride/

Panicked Condition: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Panicked

If a mount gains the Panicked condition from an enemy spell/ability, can the rider of the panicked mount use ride checks to have even a slight degree of control over the animal?

Specific example: The rider knows there is a trapped pressure plate on the ground ahead. The panicked animal with a 1-2 intelligence has no concept of this trap. It is moving toward the trap while fleeing from the source of its fear. Can the rider make a Ride check to have the animal Leap over the trap per the Ride skill rules? Or is the animal just fleeing out of its mind, and ignoring any commands from its rider?

Liberty's Edge

No. Unless he can "convince" the creature that there is an immediate source of danger in the direction in which it is going. And that would require some kind of illusion, summoned monster or other similar stuff, not tugging the reins and shifting the rider body.

Quote:

Panicked: A panicked creature must drop anything it holds and flee at top speed from the source of its fear, as well as any other dangers it encounters, along a random path. It can’t take any other actions. In addition, the creature takes a –2 penalty on all saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. If cornered, a panicked creature cowers and does not attack, typically using the total defense action in combat. A panicked creature can use special abilities, including spells, to flee; indeed, the creature must use such means if they are the only way to escape.

Panicked is a more extreme state of fear than shaken or frightened.

Random is random.


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By RAW, probably not. I'd allow an absurdly high handle animal or ride check though.


Artofregicide wrote:
By RAW, probably not. I'd allow an absurdly high handle animal or ride check though.

What feels right for absurdly high DC? The Ride skill is DC 20 to control a non-combat trained mount. This is a combat trained mount that is Panicked, and basically had its training temporarily blasted away due to supernatural / spell-like extreme fear.

And to incorporate Diego's point above, "Random is random," would a 50% chance the animal still ignores the rider's command be too strict? I know we're outta RAW territory here, I'm trying to get a sense of when I become a dick GM vs. a realistic / kinda gritty GM.


Average Joe 23 wrote:
Artofregicide wrote:
By RAW, probably not. I'd allow an absurdly high handle animal or ride check though.

What feels right for absurdly high DC? The Ride skill is DC 20 to control a non-combat trained mount. This is a combat trained mount that is Panicked, and basically had its training temporarily blasted away due to supernatural / spell-like extreme fear.

And to incorporate Diego's point above, "Random is random," would a 50% chance the animal still ignores the rider's command be too strict? I know we're outta RAW territory here, I'm trying to get a sense of when I become a dick GM vs. a realistic / kinda gritty GM.

For handling a panicked animal? It's actually impossible per RAW, so if you're going to allow a DC I'd start at 30DC minimum, increase to 40DC if the animal hasn't been combat-trained.


DC30 seems like a good starting place for a trained animal, yeah. Even then, you'd be able to direct the panic not overcome it.

The creature still flees, but you could determine the direction.


I don't see what the big issue is, if you want to control where your mount goes while panicked, all you have to do is the medieval, sword version of this.


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Kill the mount, raise it as undead.

Whether or not this works, kill the players, raise them as undead.


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Smite Undead!

Resurrect them as living creatures, then train them to become Paladins to smite more Undead!*

*Immunity to fear included in this package


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Thread Necromancers' Guild wrote:

Kill the mount, raise it as undead.

"Indeed, We shall seek out and slaughter this horse in an unholy murder immediately, and we can Perfect it in Undeath..."

The Swarm of Undead Sentient Squirrels climb the nearby trees, and in synchronized unison, spread flaps of necrotic flesh along their sides and begin to glide through the forest in all directions in search of their prey.

"You cannot run. You cannot hide. All shall fall before the Might of the Swarm..."


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Theaitetos wrote:

Smite Undead!

Resurrect them as living creatures, then train them to become Paladins to smite more Undead!*

*Immunity to fear included in this package

Not cool man, that's our thing. Find your own thing. That's just hurtful. :(


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Theaitetos wrote:

Smite Undead!

Resurrect them as living creatures, then train them to become Paladins to smite more Undead!*

*Immunity to fear included in this package

To be fair though, awakened heavy horses with paladin levels is pretty great.

Wait, is that what Ponyfinder is?


The Swarm of Undead Sentient Squirrels doesn't take long to find the Paladin and his horse by gliding in all directions, but now they are spread quite thin. Most of the squirrels stay in the trees and observe the Paladin from afar. They begin hiding in the trees roughly one hundred yards away as they wait for the multitude of their brethren to arrive at their location, while three squirrels start scouting in front of the Paladin's path for an ideal locale for an ambush.

Stealth Check 1d20 + 42 ⇒ (6) + 42 = 48

One of the squirrels hiding in the trees whispers to another squirrel,"Send word to the Thread Necromancers' Guild, we've found the Paladin...

The other squirrel makes haste and begins gliding back towards the epicenter of where the swarm originally dispersed, where the Thread Necromancers' Guild is waiting.


As much as desperately wish to derail this thread with a gruesome depiction of our... renegotiation of terms with impudent paladins, it would be a unkind to the OP.

Now, if someone was to create their own thread...


I think the question has been answered. Unless anyone objects, let the hijack commence!


Ryze Kuja wrote:
I think the question has been answered. Unless anyone objects, let the hijack commence!

OP here. By all means, proceed with thine evil machinations. I'm glad to have provided the platform for such treacherous endeavors.

Also, I asked the same question on reddit in case anyone is looking for additional opinions on topic: reddit post.

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