So i became dead set on making a Filcher Rogue, doing his best to put a smile to the table, putting soap and bells in party members socks, buying rounds for the house, from no-laugh scolding biggies pocket... but...
I’m a power gamer and need to know how his ability’s can work for my gain ->
Filch (Ex)
At 4th level, a filcher learns how pluck items off her opponents even in combat. She gains Improved Steal as a bonus feat and can use her Sleight of Hand bonus instead of her CMB when performing a steal combat maneuver. If the filcher gains bonuses on combat maneuver checks from any feats, spells, magic items, or similar effects, they are added to the Sleight of Hand bonus when using the steal maneuver.
1. Since I use my skill instead of CMB does that negate size penalty?
I still get bonuses which often, with my experience, also means the penalty’s.
Or do I only gain penalty’s from skill/ability decrease?
combat maneuver
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
Trip, disarm, sunder can all be made with weapons, to gain weapon bonuses -
2. With that in thought, would that allow unarmed feats and bonuses to apply?
Since a combat maneuver is a attack roll, would true strike apply, or what about amulet of mighty fisting, enchanted gauntlets, heroism (would apply both as attack roll and skill for 2+2= +4?)
I believe it could be a fun character, dipping snake bite brawler for unarmed strike and shield prof (buckler = one hand for their pocket, the other for the loot sack), probably going major arcana talent for vanish, to better position oneself, since the loss of evasion puts him back as squishy. Snake style to go Cobra Kai
This is my first post and it’s far past my bed time, so I hope you can live with faulty gramma and strange ideees...
Side question
3. Gauntlet stands as a unarmed strike, so can I gain bonuses to both by taking weapon focus (unarmed) or do I have to pick one of ‘em?
(I’ll not let go of my adamantine lock pick gauntlet)
Agreed. Though to be clear there are spell, magic item and equipment bonuses which can apply directly to the sleight of hand skill (e.g. the animal aspect-raccoon spell), those'd work.
Skill Focus now applies to your CMB. Lol.
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I would still like to point out that the last sentence of the Filch still says
If the filcher gains bonuses on combat maneuver checks from any feats, spells, magic items, or similar effects, they are added to the Sleight of Hand bonus when using the steal maneuver.
Which at least gives the bonus of improved steal feat and any other what not open CMB bonus (traits, class feature, item, etc.)
Furthermore the maneuver still addresses itself as an attack (in the bottom text of the maneuver description, not the Filch ability), which as for most Combat maneuvers which counts as an attack (evil stare at Feint) is able to gain from attack roll increases like bless and inspire courage. (Although making your bard sing “steal, steal, steal his infernal unholy belt of evil” in the mist of combat with inspire competence, would give a strange vibe between the BBEG and the party)
Although this maneuver can only be performed if the target is within your reach, you can use a whip to steal an object from a target within range with a –4 penalty on the attack roll.
If your attack is successful, you may take one item from your opponent. You must be able to reach the item to be taken (subject to GM discretion). Your enemy is immediately aware of this theft unless you possess the Greater Steal feat.
Wouldn’t this open the possibility, just like arguing that a ‘sap in the mans most holy place’, would allow the saps bonuses on a Dirty trick sickening effect?
Ps thanks for the input so far :)
That's a nice ability. Bonuses to skills are pretty cheap.
You can practice w/ a 50 gp Billy Ten-Bells for a +2 competence bonus
At a higher level obtain 2500 gp Gloves of Larceny for a +5 competence bonus instead or save up 5400 gp for a +10 (untyped?) from Masterful Gloves
Oh... the maneuver also calls out that ->
Although this maneuver can only be performed if the target is within your reach, you can use a whip to steal an object from a target within range with a –4 penalty on the attack roll.
Which suddenly makes it clear, I’ll need a whip (even with -8 it shouldn’t be hard to pick on some scrawny arcane caster)
But also opens for the use of weapons
Bard goes -“... pull the clip, take down his pants, push him over the edge and watch his head go sp-Blam!”
BBEG sways to the 32 preform skill roll
Sorry for constantly spamming my own post -_-;
Little hole i the plan -> stacking hammer
- Enchantment bonuses doesn’t stack (not that I know of many enchantment bonuses to skills) so amulet of meaty fisting or gauntlets (I know they wouldn’t stack together no matter what, but that’s not the point) doesn’t stack with a called enchantment bonus to skills
- Heroism is a morale bonus, so the to hit bonus doesn’t stack with the skill bonus no matter what.
- Gloves of lenacy takes the hand slot, witch I assume, so does adamantine gauntlet.
- Most magical skill bonuses is competence bonuses and so is the attack bonus from effects like inspire courage.
-it will always take up your standard action, and you have to be creative with it to be useful.
Think of it like a dominate person sorcerer in a undead campaign, where he will first shine when they meet the lich’s apprentice gnome.
The bonuses will becomes powerful late game with combination of advanced rogue talent - Weapon Snatcher (Ex), but this still takes combat expertise and improved disarm
-but it is hash for a feat starved specialised rogue,
And probably still only outside the specialised fighter by +5ish
I would still love to hear your thoughts
-bard blushes
- god wizard -“... maybe you could have helped us mister angel?”
-BBEG -“I’m gonna make you sing at my coming funeral!” *uses his last breath to limited wish - quest/geas the bard*
-filcher -“dudes I got a angels belt! Do you think it counts as a good aligned weapon?”
The wording of Filch makes it clear you are still performing a combat maneuver not making a skill roll. You are simply substituting your sleight of hand bonus form your CMB. Things that are added directly to your CMB would not be applied. So you do not add the special size modifier or STR to your sleight of hand bonus. Any modification to the combat maneuver is factored in. If you notice the wording of steal is specifies you gain a +2 bonus on your check, not to your CMB. This also means you take any penalties to that would affect the maneuver.
Nice, never noticed that maneuver feats worded the bonus as untyped, thanks for pointing that out mysterious stranger : )
But I’ll still point to the class features wording (again)
Filch (Ex)
At 4th level, a filcher learns how pluck items off her opponents even in combat. She gains Improved Steal as a bonus feat and can use her Sleight of Hand bonus instead of her CMB when performing a steal combat maneuver. If the filcher gains bonuses on combat maneuver checks from any feats, spells, magic items, or similar effects, they are added to the Sleight of Hand bonus when using the steal maneuver
I hinted that weapon snatcher i my last post would work the same way, but it doesn’t since I simply says
Benefit: A rogue with this talent can make a Sleight of Hand check in place of a combat maneuver check when attempting to disarm an opponent.
As mysterious stranger pointed improved disarm grants a untyped bonus to disarm checks but that also seems open for discussion : /
You're right Hessin, the specific line there overrides the general rule, I missed that. Feats, spells, items etc. will apply when they provide general attack bonuses - but not just situational bonuses to unarmed attack or to a gauntlets attack, because a steal maneuver is not performed with or as part of an unarmed (or gauntlet) attack. So the bless spell is good for you, but the weapon focus (unarmed) feat is not.
OTOH yeah, that probably includes situations where the 'bonus' is -1. You should still be able to get the CMB up to ungodly levels since including both skill and attack roll optimisation on one check is liable to get very big numbers.
I pointed to it in a earlier post and I would still argue that a bonus to unarmed strikes, might be added to the roll since as pointed out
Although this maneuver can only be performed if the target is within your reach, you can use a whip to steal an object from a target within range with a –4 penalty on the attack roll.
Which as I proposed would open the use of weapon bonuses, like using a sap to sicken through dirty trick.
Whatever It’s Filch ability or standard steal maneuver, you don’t simply step op to the side of an opponent, use steal maneuver by staring into ones hand and ‘pop’ a coin in my inventory.
Gauntlets might be a bit off, but amulet of mighty fist and Weapon Focus unarmed strike bonuses pretty much goes to ones hands, which is most likely the main limb to steal with.
I did like your meanings, am I fully of trail or does I have some hold on my ideas?
This reminds me of those sleight of hand magicians who call up a volunteer to the stage and then steal their belt, watch, wallet, and whatever else they can get their hands on while the audience laughs.
I would probably use Filch in combat similar to this----^ for extreme harrying of an opponent that relies upon readily available and/or stored items, like an Alchemists, Sorcs, or Wizards, who have bombs, alchemist's fire, flasks of w/e, scrolls, wands, MM rods, spell component pouches, etc., readily available on their bandolier, and stealing a fighter or rogue-type's sheathed backup weapons, maybe even "swoosh" their belt out of its belt loops so that all their crap that was attached to their belt falls to the ground.
So when you get into combat, or before you Surprise Attack someone, I would ask the DM to describe whomever you're fighting, and then start being as annoying as possible with the thievery shenanigans.