In Starfinder A.I. can attract a soul once they become complex enough that is a thing and Its how S.R.O. and androids came about Right?
And in the star-ship operations manual they talk about ships with V.A.I. will eventually grow into proper A.I. and gain a soul right?
So finally getting my point, a lot of gods in pathfinder/Starfinder had a mortal soul at some point right? So by that extension can a Star-ship become a God?
So in summation, Is there such a thing as Star-ships soul? And what would a Star-ship god be like? You know other than having the Travel cleric domain.
seth47er wrote: In Starfinder A.I. can attract a soul once they become complex enough that is a thing and Its how S.R.O. and androids came about Right?
And in the star-ship operations manual they talk about ships with V.A.I. will eventually grow into proper A.I. and gain a soul right?
So finally getting my point, a lot of gods in pathfinder/Starfinder had a mortal soul at some point right? So by that extension can a Star-ship become a God?
So in summation, Is there such a thing as Star-ships soul? And what would a Star-ship god be like? You know other than having the Travel cleric domain.
Triune the all code is a combination of three AI that had ascended to godhood separately and then united into one. So a starship AI could canonically transcend to godhood but there is already a god of AI.
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I wouldn't find it shocking if Triune eventually wanted to acquire a subordinate God of Starships, mind. Assuming there isn't already one, and they serve under Weydan instead.
I think it's unlikely there would be a starship god, but mostly because I think any AI advanced enough to ascend to godhood would likely eschew or delineate between where it's processor had been housed and it's consciousness/soul.
Remember, the computer & processor that houses an AI may be on board a starship, but it can always be relocated.
Any individual AI may to varying extents feel that the starship is it's body by extension, or it may feel it's a taxicab.
In my mind, any AI aboard a ship is closer to the taxicab side than the "I am this ship" side.
Eh, that might be the case for some AIs, but consider that most gods link themselves to a particular mortal form, a general "chassis" if not a specific species. Sure, they can take on any form they wish or none at all, but Torag for example isn't just the God of the Dwarves, but usually takes a form that is a dwarf, or dwarf-like. For an AI living in a ship, the ship is more than just a coincidental residence, its an extension of itself, a tool and body by which the AI mind exerts its will open the world around it. In essence, the ship is core to the definition of what the AI does, and so should probably be just as core an image and symbol to how the new AI-God exists, as dwarven form is to Torag as embodying what he does.
Metaphysician wrote: Eh, that might be the case for some AIs, but consider that most gods link themselves to a particular mortal form, a general "chassis" if not a specific species. Sure, they can take on any form they wish or none at all, but Torag for example isn't just the God of the Dwarves, but usually takes a form that is a dwarf, or dwarf-like. For an AI living in a ship, the ship is more than just a coincidental residence, its an extension of itself, a tool and body by which the AI mind exerts its will open the world around it. In essence, the ship is core to the definition of what the AI does, and so should probably be just as core an image and symbol to how the new AI-God exists, as dwarven form is to Torag as embodying what he does. I wonder if such an AI would take the form of a starship, or if it's realm would take the form of a starship interior.
I suppose... it might actually be less the AI taking the form of a starship, and more flying it's realm around.
Metaphysician wrote: Eh, that might be the case for some AIs, but consider that most gods link themselves to a particular mortal form, a general "chassis" if not a specific species. Sure, they can take on any form they wish or none at all, but Torag for example isn't just the God of the Dwarves, but usually takes a form that is a dwarf, or dwarf-like. For an AI living in a ship, the ship is more than just a coincidental residence, its an extension of itself, a tool and body by which the AI mind exerts its will open the world around it. In essence, the ship is core to the definition of what the AI does, and so should probably be just as core an image and symbol to how the new AI-God exists, as dwarven form is to Torag as embodying what he does. To be honest I think that's projection (at least on the part of gods that weren't originally humanoids of some kind).
To me, Torag is like the exception that proves the rule. Beyond that, he created the dwarves, so it seems likely that the dwarves resemble him rather than the other way around.
I mean, you can argue this a lot of ways.
If there was a god of starships that was originally AI, then sure I agree what your suggesting is reasonable.
But I don't think an AI that started out on a starship that transcends the boundaries of normal existence into godhood would necessarily find it to be "them". Associated with? Sure.
But to me, the fact that the AI could reside anywhere, makes it less meaningful that it happens to reside in a ship. And it's very likely any AI that becomes a god would be housed in many places before achieving godhood (at least in my estimation).
Ultimately everyone is free to imagine how you like, but I personally find it a bit too goofy that I wouldn't personally want it. Probably because I imagine AIs as beings disconnected from the physical (in their minds) and on a "higher plane of being" such that they wouldn't be bogged down by what their physical vessel had been.
It's part of what makes them alien in mindset, and sets them apart from Androids and SROs.
Garretmander wrote: Metaphysician wrote: Eh, that might be the case for some AIs, but consider that most gods link themselves to a particular mortal form, a general "chassis" if not a specific species. Sure, they can take on any form they wish or none at all, but Torag for example isn't just the God of the Dwarves, but usually takes a form that is a dwarf, or dwarf-like. For an AI living in a ship, the ship is more than just a coincidental residence, its an extension of itself, a tool and body by which the AI mind exerts its will open the world around it. In essence, the ship is core to the definition of what the AI does, and so should probably be just as core an image and symbol to how the new AI-God exists, as dwarven form is to Torag as embodying what he does. I wonder if such an AI would take the form of a starship, or if it's realm would take the form of a starship interior.
I suppose... it might actually be less the AI taking the form of a starship, and more flying it's realm around. Given that "carrying other people and things inside" is very much part of the idea of a Starship, this seems perfectly plausible. The boundary between "god" and "realm" kind of should be fairly flexible ( especially since most visits to the PMP are technically avatars, anyway ).
Claxon wrote: Metaphysician wrote: Eh, that might be the case for some AIs, but consider that most gods link themselves to a particular mortal form, a general "chassis" if not a specific species. Sure, they can take on any form they wish or none at all, but Torag for example isn't just the God of the Dwarves, but usually takes a form that is a dwarf, or dwarf-like. For an AI living in a ship, the ship is more than just a coincidental residence, its an extension of itself, a tool and body by which the AI mind exerts its will open the world around it. In essence, the ship is core to the definition of what the AI does, and so should probably be just as core an image and symbol to how the new AI-God exists, as dwarven form is to Torag as embodying what he does. To be honest I think that's projection (at least on the part of gods that weren't originally humanoids of some kind).
To me, Torag is like the exception that proves the rule. Beyond that, he created the dwarves, so it seems likely that the dwarves resemble him rather than the other way around.
I mean, you can argue this a lot of ways.
If there was a god of starships that was originally AI, then sure I agree what your suggesting is reasonable.
But I don't think an AI that started out on a starship that transcends the boundaries of normal existence into godhood would necessarily find it to be "them". Associated with? Sure.
But to me, the fact that the AI could reside anywhere, makes it less meaningful that it happens to reside in a ship. And it's very likely any AI that becomes a god would be housed in many places before achieving godhood (at least in my estimation).
Ultimately everyone is free to imagine how you like, but I personally find it a bit too goofy that I wouldn't personally want it. Probably because I imagine AIs as beings disconnected from the physical (in their minds) and on a "higher plane of being" such that they wouldn't be bogged down by what their physical vessel had been.
It's part of what makes them alien in... I mean, this is also perfectly fair, and I can certainly imagine some ship-AIs taking this view. I just see two complications related to it:
1. An AI with this perspective probably wouldn't be the God of Starships, since that really isn't their area of interest, but the God of Something More Esoteric. The physical is irrelevant in their mindset, so their domain would be definition need to be something non physical.
2. This would require that the AI actually *be* disconnected from the idea of its ship as a meaningful housing. At least as I read, most AIs don't exactly swap bodies *that* much. A Ship-AI might theoretically be able to house itself anywhere, but its probably going to spend most of its career ( at least ) "wearing" a ship for a body.
Metaphysician wrote: I mean, this is also perfectly fair, and I can certainly imagine some ship-AIs taking this view. I just see two complications related to it:
1. An AI with this perspective probably wouldn't be the God of Starships, since that really isn't their area of interest, but the God of Something More Esoteric. The physical is irrelevant in their mindset, so their domain would be definition need to be something non physical.
2. This would require that the AI actually *be* disconnected from the idea of its ship as a meaningful housing. At least as I read, most AIs don't exactly swap bodies *that* much. A Ship-AI might theoretically be able to house itself anywhere, but its probably going to spend most of its career ( at least ) "wearing" a ship for a body.
Yeah, I guess I was viewing the question through the lens of generic AI ascends to godhood, what happens? But also what if that AI had been in a starship?
My response was, well we already had 3 AI-ish gods ascend to godhood and they combined to form one god that is interested in drift space/machines/tinkering. Your #1 is basically this already.
As for 2, it's hard for humans to imagine not being connected to our physical form, to the point where people develop cognitive dissonance when their mental picture of themselves doesn't match what they see in the mirror. For better or worse humans strongly identify as our meat suit.
However, applying that to AI (in my opinion) does a disservice to an entity that should be alien in mindset to human beings. It makes it too human. Perhaps this is just a personal issue I have with too many races being little more than rubber forehead aliens (when in the hands of players).
Edit: But I suppose, if an AI aboard a spaceship somehow became a god (while being in the spaceship) it could make sense to have that AI become a god of spaceships.
I think, rather than imagining the starship as the AI's "body", perhaps imagine it as the AI's *tools*. A human is not tied to the tools they hold and use in the same manner as their body. . . but a human who is an expert in a field involving tools, whether a soldier or an artist or a craftsman or even a sports player? Probably associates their self-image *more* with the tools they use than the physical body they happen to inhabit. The body is invisible, but the rifle or the paintbrush? That is something always in mind. The same would probably apply to an AI; what they do is important to who they are, and if what they do requires implements, those implements will be part of their self-image.
AI having or not having soul is actually quite confusing.
https://youtu.be/ylS252bMi74
At 25:20 I TOTALLY CALLED IT!
I didn't get any of the domains correct but, I TOTALLY CALLED IT!
okay enough silly gloating, It is such a cool concept. can't wait to see it in the book proper.
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