Corpses are Items?

[Yure]

Once a creature is killed and not undead, do they become items?

Looking for the purpose of Shrink Item.

But also curious for future options.

What Rules or FAQs support your position?

[Diego Rossi]

The correct term is Object, as Shrink Item target is an object.

There is no rule definition of what is an object, AFAIK. Only the dictionary one.

[Thread Necromancers' Guild]

We prefer the term "pre-undead".

[Claxon]

Yeah, a corpse probably wouldn't be an item, but I don't think the game rules interact with "items" much anyways-if at all.

But a corpse would be an object, as it's certainly not a creature anymore.

Shrink Item targets objects, so I can't see a reason why it wouldn't work on a corpse.

[Mudfoot]

So...if you have a shrunken corpse, what happens when it's Raised? Tiny person, or does the spell end? Or does Raising fail? What about if it's shrunk into cloth? Or permanent?

For that matter, what about killing someone under the effects of Enlarge Person?

[willuwontu]

There's a variety of issues with both sides, and RAW is very much ambiguous about what a corpse is considered (there's text considering them as objects as often as there's text doing the opposite).

Generally, if you're the GM you should treat it as an object on a case-by-case basis and consider the consequences of doing so.

For instance, spells don't check their initial casting conditions after they've already taken effect. An enlarged person doesn't shrink until the spell wears off, or never shrinks if it was permanencied.

As others note, you could allow casting shrink object on the corpse, but if the effect is permanencied and the corpse is raised, then you have a player running around in a permanently tiny body. Or permanent invisibility (until they attack).

Then you have to consider things like, what's the hardness of a corpse? How much HP does it have? Which all become very finnicky extremely quickly.

[Matthew Downie]

Mudfoot wrote:

So...if you have a shrunken corpse, what happens when it's Raised? Tiny person, or does the spell end? Or does Raising fail? What about if it's shrunk into cloth? Or permanent?

For that matter, what about killing someone under the effects of Enlarge Person?

I would say that any spell that only affects objects would wear off if the target ceases to be an object (due to Raise Dead). Similarly, any spell that only affects living targets should stop working if the target ceases to be alive.

[Diego Rossi]

Matthew Downie wrote:

Mudfoot wrote:

So...if you have a shrunken corpse, what happens when it's Raised? Tiny person, or does the spell end? Or does Raising fail? What about if it's shrunk into cloth? Or permanent?

For that matter, what about killing someone under the effects of Enlarge Person?

I would say that any spell that only affects objects would wear off if the target ceases to be an object (due to Raise Dead). Similarly, any spell that only affects living targets should stop working if the target ceases to be alive.

AFAIK, spell with a duration are canceled by changing your status. Doing otherwise would generate problems when you cast Breath of life on someone that died.

[avr]

Thread Necromancers' Guild wrote:

We prefer the term "pre-undead".

Surely "post-undead" is a possibility? Overlooking an obvious answer seems unlikely for a civilised and educated being such as yourself.

[Thread Necromancers' Guild]

avr wrote:

Thread Necromancers' Guild wrote:

We prefer the term "pre-undead".

Surely "post-undead" is a possibility? Overlooking an obvious answer seems unlikely for a civilised and educated being such as yourself.

We are an organization of many individual agents, but to answer your question: "post-undeath" is really just "pre-undeath" with more steps. We didn't want to get into semantics to detail the thread.