Hi everyone,
I recently decided to give a try at a Dhampir Superstition Barbarian. I will play it in PFS. But I have a few things that are unclear about Superstition Instinct and I wanted to get your point of view.
Superstition states: "If an ally insists on using magic on you despite your unwillingness, and you have no reason to believe they will stop, continuing to travel with that ally of your own free will counts as willingly accepting their spells (as do similar circumstances) and thus is also anathema to your instinct."
What happens with spells affecting all allies, like Inspire Courage?
Can I choose not to be an ally of the bard and thus not being affected? Because otherwise, it means that either I don't use my Superstition Instinct or the Bard can't use Inspire Courage, it's a bit hard.
What happens with offensive spells?
It happens sometimes that you end up in the Fireball or Divine Smite of an ally. It's not supposed to be specifically enjoyable. But in the case of the Superstition Barbarian, it's also supposed to be anathema... Do I have to forbid my fellow Cleric party member to use 3-action Heals despite the fact that it doesn't heal me (as I'm a Dhampir)? Or is it a case where the Cleric is not insisting on using magic on my but just forced to do so (as he would clearly prefer not to include me)?
Thanks for your help.
Honestly, Suprstitous just seems terrible in PF2 compared to PF1, since it only applied while raging and didn't cause you to lose your powers. You just couldn't choose to be willing (you always counted as unwilling), so it mostly just meant don't try to buff me after the fight started.
This is PFS so there is supposed to be some overarching major reason which forces you to work together for the purposes of the session. Anathema is supposed to be watered down a bit there. Check it out
Which says
PFS Note Given the slightly relaxed rules around edicts and anathema in Society play, a barbarian with the superstition instinct can benefit from spells and magic items if they are an unavoidable part of a Society adventure, such as if a scenario assumes the PCs are transported to their mission location via a teleport spell, or if an adventure requires that all PCs participate in a magical ritual.
and here in PFS down the bottom
To allow a wide variety of characters in Society play, the rules around edicts and anathema are slightly relaxed. All characters can participate in Pathfinder Society adventures without running afoul of their deity or classes anathema.
So AFAICT your Anathema would not trigger in PFS play unless you individually did something. I guess I would just inform the GM that you are not an ally for the purposes of any spell cast on you, and ask for a saving throw if someone does. Ie roleplay it a little, but if it can't be avoided, it can't be avoided and more on. Just make sure the barbarian dissents briefly, but doesn't stop the game.
It is curious that superstitious barbarians are likely to be more upset by the buffers and healers ie clerics and bards rather than wizards or sorcerer. Which is a flavour change.
As for aoe beneficial effects, like inspire courage, rules seem to be clear enough here
Your extremely restrictive anathema grants you powers beyond those of other instincts.If an ally insists on using magic on you despite your unwillingness, and you have no reason to believe they will stop, continuing to travel with that ally of your own free will counts as willingly accepting their spells (as do similar circumstances) and thus is also anathema to your instinct.You, or the culprit, have to leave the party.
Not to say that given the fact the game works on grid, the ally will always know if you will be targeted by his spell, so he will "always" have the chance to move, in order not to target you.
Deciding to cast the aoe spell because of stuff like:
- Action economy ( 1 cantrip + 1 spell )
- To target more allies ( maybe you are in the middle, not allowing him to target the other 2/3 party members )it's always a choice.
If he decides to do so, then he deliberately decides not to care about your superstition, and because so becomes a not reliable ally ( as the anathema says ).
Considering the range of Inspire Courage, I think it's safer to assume you just can't have a Superstitious Barbarian and a Bard in a party in normal circumstances.
Honestly, Suprstitous just seems terrible in PF2 compared to PF1, since it only applied while raging and didn't cause you to lose your powers. You just couldn't choose to be willing (you always counted as unwilling), so it mostly just meant don't try to buff me after the fight started.
You must have misread, it applies all the time. You can't be buffed before combat without losing your powers.
This is PFS so there is supposed to be some overarching major reason which forces you to work together for the purposes of the session. Anathema is supposed to be watered down a bit there. Check it out
Which says
PFS Note Given the slightly relaxed rules around edicts and anathema in Society play, a barbarian with the superstition instinct can benefit from spells and magic items if they are an unavoidable part of a Society adventure, such as if a scenario assumes the PCs are transported to their mission location via a teleport spell, or if an adventure requires that all PCs participate in a magical ritual.and here in PFS down the bottom
To allow a wide variety of characters in Society play, the rules around edicts and anathema are slightly relaxed. All characters can participate in Pathfinder Society adventures without running afoul of their deity or classes anathema.
So AFAICT your Anathema would not trigger in PFS play unless you individually did something. I guess I would just inform the GM that you are not an ally for the purposes of any spell cast on you, and ask for a saving throw if someone does. Ie roleplay it a little, but if it can't be avoided, it can't be avoided and more on. Just make sure the barbarian dissents briefly, but doesn't stop the game.
It is curious that superstitious barbarians are likely to be more upset by the buffers and healers ie clerics and bards rather than wizards or sorcerer. Which is a flavour change.
I see what you mean, but I don't want to abuse PFS flexibility to the point of negating the anathema. I think I'll tell my table that I'm not a willing target for any spell and that they should try to take it into account when a spell doesn't give me the right to refuse. And my Barbarian will just be upset if another character affects him with his spells in situations where it could have been easily avoided.
I think the Superstition Barbarian should do their best to not benefit from the Bard's Inspire Courage by moving out of range of the spell's effect.
Precisely. Let the bard know clearly whats happening in character and out, so he can choose different tactics. Which he won't like but otherwise you will have to stay 60ft from him. He should get the hint and there other things he can do. BTW the bards cantrip based 60ft range powers are very over the top. Most other buffs are normally a much smaller range and easier to avoid.
Honestly, Suprstitous just seems terrible in PF2 compared to PF1, since it only applied while raging and didn't cause you to lose your powers. You just couldn't choose to be willing (you always counted as unwilling), so it mostly just meant don't try to buff me after the fight started.You must have misread, it applies all the time. You can't be buffed before combat without losing your powers.
I was talking about PF1 superstition vs PF2.
PF1 version said:
Benefit: The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.
So in PF1 superstition was something you could work around.
The PF2 version is awful, and does work as you suggest. Which is why my comment was suggesting avoiding it.
I think the Superstition Barbarian should do their best to not benefit from the Bard's Inspire Courage by moving out of range of the spell's effect.Precisely. Let the bard know clearly whats happening in character and out, so he can choose different tactics. Which he won't like but otherwise you will have to stay 60ft from him. He should get the hint and there other things he can do. BTW the bards cantrip based 60ft range powers are very over the top. Most other buffs are normally a much smaller range and easier to avoid.
If getting out of range is too hard, another option would be to just refuse to make an attack while buffed.