Polymorph spells and scaling

[HumbleGamer]

I was looking at some polymorph spells, and saw they seem to look fine until lvl 8.

Question is "What next?"

Correct me if i got it wrong

Polymorph

Quote:

These effects transform the target into a new form. A target can’t be under the effect of more than one polymorph effect at a time. If it comes under the effect of a second polymorph effect, the second polymorph effect attempts to counteract the first. If it succeeds, it takes effect, and if it fails, the spell has no effect on that target. Any Strikes specifically granted by a polymorph effect are magical. Unless otherwise stated, polymorph spells don’t allow the target to take on the appearance of a specific individual creature, but rather just a generic creature of a general type or ancestry.

If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties. Unless otherwise noted, the battle form prevents you from casting spells, speaking, and using most manipulate actions that require hands. (If there’s doubt about whether you can use an action, the GM decides.) Your gear is absorbed into you; the constant abilities of your gear still function, but you can’t activate any items.

Let's take a lvl 15 spellcaster, for example:

AC = 21 +15 = 36 ( Equal to a combatant with Unarmored, leather or medium armor, and potency +2 ).

Attack = +28 ( like any other lvl 15 combatant with a +2 weapon ).

Everything looks fine.

After that, I can't find a progression regardless the polymorph spell.

Which means that the more the party levels, the less the spellcaster will be able to hit. Until level 20, when he will face enemies with 45 AC ( Red Dragon, Balor ) or even 46 AC ( Gold Dragon, Pit fiend ).

In order to hit with a +28, the spellcaster will have to roll 17 ( vs AC 45 ) or 18 ( vs AC 46 ).

Same goes with their armor class, which will be 41, VS:

-44 ( standard armor for any combatant )
-45 ( heavy armored combatant )
-46 ( standard combatant +2 circumstance bonus )
-47 ( Heavy armored combatant +2 circumstance bonus )

A balor/pit devil has a +40 on hit, while a dragon has a +37.

two easy crits in a row.

Did I miss anything?

[Ubertron_X]

What Polymorph Spell are you refering to? Note that not every Polymorph spell has a character level equivalent and as such often gets progressively weaker, e.g. Elemental form, that can only be heightened to spell level 7 providing AC42 and +25 to-hit. If however looking at spells that actually make to to spell level 10, e.g. Avatar, you will get AC45 and +33 to-hit.

[HumbleGamer]

I was referring to dragon form ( I forgot to mention it ).

I didn't even considered occult and divine ( thought that they wouldn't have stood a chance against tradition like arcane and primal ), but now I notice that Avatar seems to be only a divine spell.

So, either arcane and primal tradition ( which are largely focused on transmutation stuff ) can't afford themselves a proper progression in terms of shapeshifting?

Anyway, Avatar progression seems to be ok (Armor is ok, and while on hit chance is -3 compared to any other lvl 20 combant class, the average damage seems to be high enough to compensate ), which is good.

...

Found out that also primal has its version ( even if different from avatar. +34 his vs +33 hit ). It's only arcane the one's left then.

Knowing this, I update my previous question:

Shape of the Dragon ( Dragon Disciple Feat )
https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1947

Quote:

You've discovered how to transform yourself into a dragon. Once per day, you can cast 7th-level dragon form as an innate arcane spell, transforming into your chosen type of dragon. The spell automatically heightens to 8th level if you're 16th level and 9th level if you're 18th level. Any time you score a critical hit with an unarmed Strike gained from dragon form, you recharge the spell's breath weapon immediately.

What's the 9th level for?

To just resist a "dispel" attempt?

[shroudb]

For dragon shape yes, 9th level just makes it harder to dispel.

For arcane and primal there's "Monstrosity Form" that's 8th and 9th level transmutation with scaling stats.

and for primal there's nature incarnate for 10th level stats as well.

[Perpdepog]

I was kinda bummed that Dragon Form didn't have a better version as well, pushing you to a gargantuan dragon, say. Hopefully we'll get something to play with in Secrets of Magic.

[Gortle]

It's not too bad. SOme polymorph spell have a moderate progression. The numbers largely stack up.

But after a few levels you need to swap to a higher level spell. I presume it was a deliberate choice by the designers to make you take something else.