Reactions during the first round

[HumbleGamer]

Are characters supposed to have their reaction on their turn or they get one for free even before their round starts?

I see there are reactions which has "you roll for initiative" as trigger, like

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=748

which means that you will be able to use a reaction even before ( same goes for feather fall and pit traps, for example ).

Does this mean that you are able to react regardless the situation?

For example, you roll 5 initiative and the invisible enemy 20, but you don't care and react anyway raising your shield with your reactive shield feat?

Quote:

These actions can be used even when it’s not your turn. You get only one reaction per encounter round, and you can use it only when its specific trigger is fulfilled. Often, the trigger is another creature’s action.

It's clear that it's one per encounter round, but it's not clear when you get, or recharge, it.

[Ubertron_X]

CRB page 461 Actions wrote:

Outside of encounters, your use of reactions is more flexible and up to the GM.

CRB page 468 ff. Step 1: Start Your Turn wrote:

The last step of starting your turn is always the same.

• Regain your 3 actions and 1 reaction. If you haven’t spent your reaction from your last turn, you lose it—you can’t “save” actions or reactions from one turn to use during the next turn.

CRB page 472 ff. Reactions in Encounters wrote:

Your reactions let you respond immediately to what’s happening around you. The GM determines whether you can use reactions before your first turn begins, depending on the situation in which the encounter happens. Once your first turn begins, you gain your actions and reaction.

CRB is rather clear on when you get your reactions respectively on when they refresh.

If you can use any before your initiative comes up is up to the GM, however I think that depending on your (exploration) activity before the actual encounter some choices are more obvious than others. For example I imagine few GMs objecting to somebody using Shield Block after already using the Defend exploration activity or using Attack of Opportunity after using the Scout exploration activity.

[HumbleGamer]

Those you listed are some extras players don't need ( players would be demanding to require such bonuses).

They need instead to invest into initiative if they want to go first and get their reaction ASAP. Or any other skill they might use to get higher initiative ( stealth, deception, survival, etc). Giving extra to players who dumb that stats or simply are unlucky, it's no rewarding towards those who go first, in my opinion.

Anyway, an oracle power like that is different:

- it's the baseline cursebound power, so it's mandatory that it can be used, regardless the situation ( it's how the class work).

- it can only be used at the beginning of the round ( no more use for it, which leads to the previous point). You don't have any other way to increase your curse, by any mean.

To think that a DM might say " You can't use it" Would be out of context, even if a DM has always the last word.

That should have been a free action, unless their intent was to let the oracle use its reaction for that, renouncing to the reaction he would have got on its turn.

[shroudb]

i think it's pretty baseline that if someone is walking with his shield raised (the defend exploration activity) he does indeed get his shield block.

it'll take quite a punishing GM to disallow that.

apart from that, it's up to the GM as outlined by the rules.

[Gary Bush]

shroudb wrote:

i think it's pretty baseline that if someone is walking with his shield raised (the defend exploration activity) he does indeed get his shield block.

it'll take quite a punishing GM to disallow that.

apart from that, it's up to the GM as outlined by the rules.

The Defend language states the character gains "the benefits of Raising a Shield before your first turn begins." The benefits of Raising a Shield(pg. 472] is to provide an AC increase. It doesn't say anything about using the Shield Block reaction. So it still remains the GM decision.

But I do agree, it would make sense that if a character has their shield raised they are expecting trouble.

[HumbleGamer]

Everybody is expecting trouble, but it's the one in the front who goes with the shield raised.

And its benefit is the shield raise +2 AC for free. Even the wizard casting detect magic, the hunter following tracks or the rogue scouting from behind are expecting trouble.

[Ubertron_X]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Everybody is expecting trouble, but it's the one in the front who goes with the shield raised.

And its benefit is the shield raise +2 AC for free. Even the wizard casting detect magic, the hunter following tracks or the rogue scouting from behind are expecting trouble.

Look, if you as a GM are not willing to grant your players any reactions before they have actually had their first turn that is your own decision and fully supported by RAW. You are indeed correct that players are not entitled to reactions before their first turn, however any sensible GM will at least consider granting some, depending on circumstances.

However if my initiative has not come up yet and the monster is just about to swallow our party Wizard whole my Cleric will surely ask our GM if I can cast Air Bubble as a reaction every single time and my best guess is that our GM will allow it 9 out of 10 times.

[Gary Bush]

Hmmm What reaction allows a character to cast a 2 action spell? Because I would be the 1 of 10 that would not allow it.

[Cordell Kintner]

In regards to the original question, reactions that have the trigger of rolling initiative should work all the time, since you arent in an encounter yet. Since you haven't started an encounter, it doesn't matter if you have gained a reaction or not.

As for reactions prior to the first turn, I usually only allow passive things, like the pus reaction on crawling hands, or things that make sense. If the party ambushes an enemy, it makes more sense for the party to have reactions, while it makes sense that they wouldn't if they were ambushed themselves.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Gary Bush wrote:

Hmmm What reaction allows a character to cast a 2 action spell? Because I would be the 1 of 10 that would not allow it.

The spell in question (Air Bubble) is always cast as a reaction:

Air Bubble (Spell 1) wrote:

Air, Conjuration

Source Core Rulebook pg. 316 2.0
Traditions arcane, divine, primal
Cast Reaction verbal; Trigger A creature within range enters an environment where it can't breathe.
Range 60 feet; Targets the triggering creature
Duration 1 minute
A bubble of pure air appears around the target's head, allowing it to breathe normally. The effect ends as soon as the target returns to an environment where it can breathe normally.

[Gary Bush]

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

Gary Bush wrote:

Hmmm What reaction allows a character to cast a 2 action spell? Because I would be the 1 of 10 that would not allow it.

The spell in question (Air Bubble) is always cast as a reaction:

Air Bubble (Spell 1) wrote:

Air, Conjuration

Source Core Rulebook pg. 316 2.0
Traditions arcane, divine, primal
Cast Reaction verbal; Trigger A creature within range enters an environment where it can't breathe.
Range 60 feet; Targets the triggering creature
Duration 1 minute
A bubble of pure air appears around the target's head, allowing it to breathe normally. The effect ends as soon as the target returns to an environment where it can breathe normally.

Ok there you go. For some reason I had in my head that the spell was a 2 action cast. That is what I get for not looking up spell first.

So yea, very reason question to ask.