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Originally, I planned to rant about how Gunslinger should change its name to Drifter and more of an emphasis be placed on the story elements that Westerns and Samurai stories have in common, making the class into a gun or katana, wandering badass type of thing. Essentially, I would have been happy as a clam if they had pivoted to copying the work Midnightoker and others have done on the Drifter homebrew.
While I still think a name change may be in order (although if Gunslinger lovers are too mad about that I’m ready to give in), I think the playtest makes clear this class has no intention of coming close to a flexible Samurai/Western trope thing. Whether that’s just not Paizo’s intention, or the things players want from this class don’t leave enough room is unclear and ultimately unimportant.
Here’s my take on where the Gunslinger should go.
1. Become the Reloading Master
My first instinct was that no class should be as focused on a handful of weapons (guns and crossbows) as the playtest Gunslinger, and I stand by that. However, if Gunslingers can add slings to that list, and then any potential new weapon with a reload greater than 0, well that starts to sound like a reasonably broad enough concept to make into a full class.
It also leaves open the option to have reloadable melee weapons, or even reloadable “wands”, which the class could be leveraged to excel with.
2. Make Reloading Fun
As I’ve discussed in several other threads, reloading is butts right now. It’s something you want to avoid if at all possible. It’s a punishment hanging over your character for using the weapon they want to use. Reload weapons are ostensibly balanced math-wise, but in play I’ve found that unless you have options to circumvent the action costs, they don’t feel balanced. A lot of that feel comes from losing out on the 3 action economy while everyone else gets to do cool stuff with it.
I’ve already seen a lot of ideas for making Reloading an integral part of the class, and something you not only want to do, but like doing because of benefits to you and is a demonstration of your character’s skills. These often end up being action economy enhancers, but with care it can be made to feel less like sweeping the Reload action under the rug and more like feeling like you’re doing more *because* you’re good at reloading.
Real quick list of things that you could do while reloading, or gain from reloading (some of which already exist):
- Seek, Recall Knowledge, Take Cover, Avert Gaze, Step, Stride, Sheathe a Weapon, Change Grip, Drink a Potion, Retrieve a Weapon, Concentrate on a Spell, Demoralize an Enemy
- Dodge bonus to AC, Bonus to Damage, Temporary HP, Extra Range, Extra Reaction, Elemental Effect on Attack, Debuff on Attack, Morale Boost to Team
Example of how not to do it:
When you make a melee attack, you can also reload. (Tacking on a reload to a normal attack)
Example of how to do it:
When you reload, you can also make a melee attack while treating the target of the attack as flat footed. (Allowing you to make an attack with bonuses IF you also reload)
3. Standardize Reload Weapon Balance
Instead of spending time worrying about adding melee stuff like I originally wanted, spend time making sure the balance between Guns, Crossbows, Slings, and any future cartridge/clip/battery weapons is nailed down and Gunslinger can exemplify the use of all of them. Provide examples of high powered, futuristic weapons right here and now and make sure they mesh with the rules available.
This will go a long way toward preventing future headaches while expanding the value and niche of the class away from just flintlocks and crossbows. Having some magazine related feats available now would be very useful for certain campaigns.
A sidebar could also help clarify the disparate grip/regrip/reload/hold/wield rules in one place and ensure every dual pistol, sword and gun, and rail gun is operating under the same assumptions.
4. Ensure Every Feat is as Permissive As Possible
Many feats in the playtest now have unnecessary restrictions to firearms and crossbows. Adding slings to that list and ensuring anything remotely reasonable is also included will go a long way to both future proofing the class and improving its broadness of appeal.
5. Ensure a Player Who Wants to Use Guns Isn’t Automatically Wrong for Picking Something Other Than Gunslinger
This gets to the heart of what I hate most about classes with narrow weapon options. They have to be THE BEST at their narrow field or else what’s the point? Right now, a player saying they want to use a bow doesn’t automatically narrow down their class. The same should be true for firearms and crossbows. If a Fighter who decides to focus on guns can’t compete with a Gunslinger, then we’ve got serious problems. If it’s never worth it to pick up a gun as any other class, we’ve got problems.
Gunslinger should stand on its own as a class with interesting abilities, and not just as a vehicle for gun use.
I’m confident that Paizo can achieve this, hopefully without requiring people to grab a Gunslinger dedication.
6. Pack in Cinematic Gunslinger Feat Options Not Related to Weapons
I’m no longer holding out hope for Samurai type stuff, so may as well make Western lovers happy by including feat support for horses, rope tricks, squinting, eating beans, bounty hunting, and whatever else you can think up.
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...so may as well make Western lovers happy by including feat support for horses, rope tricks, squinting, eating beans, bounty hunting, and whatever else you can think up.
Can o' Beans [Feat, level 2]
Ain't a problem in the world that can't be fixed with a can o' beans by the campfire. You can spend 1 hour heating up a can o' beans and feeding up to 6 people. Make a survival check or cooking lore check. The check DC is usually 15, though the GM might adjust it based on the circumstances, such as camping outside in a storm, or the recipient of the action being cursed in some way. If you’re an expert in the associated skill, you can instead attempt a DC 20 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 10; if you’re a master in the associated skill, you can instead attempt a DC 30 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 30; and if you’re legendary, you can instead attempt a DC 40 check to increase the Hit Points regained by 50. The effects of a critical failure remain the same.
Critical Success: All those who partake in the veritable feast of beans regain hit points as if you had critically succeeded at the Treat Wounds activity and gain a +2 status bonus to will saves until the end of the next combat encounter in addition to the normal effects of eating food.
Success: All those who partake of the beans regain hit points as if you had succeeded at the Treat Wounds activity and gain a +1 status bonus to will saves until the end of the next combat encounter in addition to the normal effects of eating food.
Failure: The beans are burnt. Those who partake of the beans gain the normal effects of eating food.
Critical Failure: What did you do to those beans?!? Those who partake of the beans must make a Fortitude save equal to the DC of the survival check you attempted or be sickened 1 until they complete a long rest and fatigued until the completion of a second long rest.
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1. Become the Reloading Master
2. Make Reloading Fun
This. The Gunslinger "thing" seems to be working with Reload weapons, even the more "melee-oriented" build most of the time will come across reloading at some point. Unless Paizo changes the current design a lot, I believe you got the correct path to follow.
We should think of ways of making reloading a thing that you want to, your mention to combine reloading with Demoralize rings a bell as very thematic, cool and not really that overpowered, as Demoralizing itself has a limit on range of number of uses. It may step a bit on Warning Shot's toes but I believe Warning Shot is a bit on the weak side at the moment anyway.
Also, this gives us more reasons to not use Running Reload every single reload.
5. Ensure a Player Who Wants to Use Guns Isn’t Automatically Wrong for Picking Something Other Than Gunslinger
To be honest, I'm OK with Guns being more or less limited to gunslingers. I see them as technological marvels similar to the Inventor's gadgets and gating access to good gun usage feats/proficiencies behind Gunslinger Archetype seems fair. I may be on the minority here, tho.
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Oh hey, I also had this exact idea the other day. Great minds think alike!(?) I think Gunslingers need a stronger mechanical core than "gun user" - and reloading fits the bill pretty well, while also future-proofing the class for any potential non-gun, non-crossbow reload weapons down the line.
I think there is a lot of design space for reload mechanics. In addition to what you said;
-Abilities that let you augment a reload, such as loading a gun with special ammunition.
-Abilities that let you use an unloaded weapon to some kind of effect, such as bluffing a shot for a Feint/Demoralize or similar.
-Abilities that let you use a loaded weapon for purposes other than striking, such as firing warning shots.
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Full agreement. Focusing on reload weapons is a great game niche to explore that does not step on too many other classes toes.
The Striking Spells synthesis we saw in the Magus playtest seemed to be action enhancers, and I proposed then that Shooting Star could have a reload enhancer as part of its synthesis (either get a free 1 action reload or reduce the reload of your weapon by 1, either has upsides and downsides). I could see something similar here. Specifically, I think a subclass similar Eldritch Trickster racket would be 100% appropriate on this class; combining a reload action with a cantrip cast might fit very nicely.
I'd prefer Occult, but Eldritch Deadeye sounds neat. Edit: Or spellslinger, since that was a PF1 thing.
1) Ranger. I think it's okay for them to get Firearm Ace specifically. Just that, no other changes to the class.
2) Inventor. Obviously a gizmogun is totally on-brand here.
I'm honestly still a bit surprised the Gunslinger class wasn't rolled up into the Inventor class. Not that the classes are remotely the same; I just assumed that they wouldn't have a full gunslinger class and an inventor class made the most sense to absorb it.