Finally a class to surpass the Alchemist

[LexLock]

The inventor seems like an Alchemist with no Reagents.

The only thing that makes this class better than an NPC Warrior class is the Overdrive action, which functions as a worse Rage that requires a check to activate.

The Innovations are pretty mediocre and don't do enough to make a core chassis for this class; any strength based martial can use heavy armour, a bunch of classes/archetypes can get an animal companion and no combination of weapon traits is worth playing an NPC class.

Unstable actions don't do enough to be limited to once per combat (If you compare Explode to focus spells it's abysmal) and seem to be a weird quasi-focus point resource. I'd suggest changing Unstable actions to "once per combat per action", allowing you to use each one once in a given combat.

The main problems with this class are: Bad Feats, -1 attack in combat due to having int as a key stat and poor utility.

Bad Feats: A lot of the Class Feats seem extremely niche or just bad.

"Built-in Tools" could be a Skill Feat, or could just be a base part of the class.

"Unstable Repair" Uhh why? The Unstable trait is trash obviously but when is this feat doing something other than shoring up this classes dependence on a mediocre item? A Ranger/druid can Battle Medicine their Animal Companion with a Skill Feat or just heal them with a Focus Power.

"KICKBACK STRIKE" Sort of okay for a ranged user? Should ignore AoOs and they accidentally said strike instead of stride in the last sentence.

"NO! NO! I CREATED YOU!" Niche.

"SEARING RESTORATION" Laughably bad even if they fix the Unstable Trait, should be AoE or heal much more.

"Transform Construct/Armour" Very cool, useless in Combat. A non combat focused feat wouldn't matter as much if the inventor had any utility (how does this class not get any bonus Skill Feats?), should have a non fluff benefit.

"DUAL-FORM WEAPON" Just bring two weapons, although that's my response to the entire Weapon Innovation subclass.

"MEGAVOLT" Fix Unstable or make it a focus power, compare to Dragon Instinct Barbarian or any focus power that does damage.

"GIGATON STRIKE" Knockbacks are niche, make this a part of Megavolt

"Gigavolt" Does this really need to be a 12th level feat? or a feat at all? Add this and Gigaton Strike to Megavolt and it'll still be bad until they fix Unstable, feels like filler

"TINKER’S MEDDLING" Does this really need a crafting check?

I'm going to stop with the Feats now because I don't really have any experience to compare the high level feats to.

Bad In Combat: Int as a Key Ability Score, Dex or Str as your attack stat, enough Said.

Compare the Inventor to another Int based non-spellcaster; the Investigator, not only does the Investigator have a way to get Int to attack rolls, it is also a great skill monkey.

Bad Utility:

Why on earth is this class so bad at hitting things/being hit if it isn't any good at skills? Where are the extra skill increases/feats to make this thing half-way decent out of combat?

How is this class any better at inventing than say... a fighter with Int as a secondary stat?

This class needs to be good at something, I don't really care if it's skills or some awkward new attempt at spells (it probably shouldn't be great at fighting, because that would be weird).

Currently this class feels like it's missing a key element and the piteous excuses for innovations aren't enough (maybe if you made six more and let us choose three).

Sorry for the overly hostile/critical tone, but this stuff needs fixing ASAP or the Playtest is gonna run out of time.

Gunslinger seems neat.

[Cottoncaek]

The Construct Companion is superior to EVERY other animal companion by leagues.

[shroudb]

i disagree on a lot of those premises:

at its core it's a martial class with martial proficiencies.

the weapon path offers not only unique combinations, like reach+grapple, but in general will be a straight up damage upgrade in any maneuver weapon since you can add those maneuvers to either d12 weapons or d10 reach weapons.

then you have the armor specialist (which is the weakest imo indeed) but still has inbuilt several different resistances including physical ones at highr levels.

the minion one is just an upgraded animal companion with better stats and features.

they are -1 behind in attacks for half their levels but they are at a bonus damage on all of them (both the +Int to damage as well as +elemental damage from base fautures)

they can have extra property slots which is even more damage.

and they can switch the elemental damage with just an interact action, plus, weapon path also offers every single material for the weapon, meaning that vs every single opponent you can target Weaknesses, which (especially in higher levels) are an extremely high source of damage.

No other martial can reach that level of flexibility in the type of damage they can do. The only one coming close is bomber alchemist, but alchemist has much worse attack stat and damage due to lower proficiencies and no inbuilt damage modifiers like inventor.

As for "switching weapons" suuuure, apart from the fact that each weapon"form" is seperately modified AND has the highest runes for your level, as opposed to secondary weapons that you will never have at maximum runes.

[Caralene]

This is the coolest class IMO that paizo has ever unveiled. I am immeasurably excited to make one.

[Lanathar]

LexLock wrote:

The inventor seems like an Alchemist with no Reagents.

The only thing that makes this class better than an NPC Warrior class is the Overdrive action, which functions as a worse Rage that requires a check to activate.

The Innovations are pretty mediocre and don't do enough to make a core chassis for this class; any strength based martial can use heavy armour, a bunch of classes/archetypes can get an animal companion and no combination of weapon traits is worth playing an NPC class.

Unstable actions don't do enough to be limited to once per combat (If you compare Explode to focus spells it's abysmal) and seem to be a weird quasi-focus point resource. I'd suggest changing Unstable actions to "once per combat per action", allowing you to use each one once in a given combat.

The main problems with this class are: Bad Feats, -1 attack in combat due to having int as a key stat and poor utility.

Bad Feats: A lot of the Class Feats seem extremely niche or just bad.

"Built-in Tools" could be a Skill Feat, or could just be a base part of the class.

"Unstable Repair" Uhh why? The Unstable trait is trash obviously but when is this feat doing something other than shoring up this classes dependence on a mediocre item? A Ranger/druid can Battle Medicine their Animal Companion with a Skill Feat or just heal them with a Focus Power.

"KICKBACK STRIKE" Sort of okay for a ranged user? Should ignore AoOs and they accidentally said strike instead of stride in the last sentence.

"NO! NO! I CREATED YOU!" Niche.

"SEARING RESTORATION" Laughably bad even if they fix the Unstable Trait, should be AoE or heal much more.

"Transform Construct/Armour" Very cool, useless in Combat. A non combat focused feat wouldn't matter as much if the inventor had any utility (how does this class not get any bonus Skill Feats?), should have a non fluff benefit.

"DUAL-FORM WEAPON" Just bring two weapons, although that's my response to the entire Weapon Innovation subclass.

"MEGAVOLT" Fix Unstable or make it a focus...

The NPC warrior class? This doesn't exist. So what on earth are you talking about?

[Sporkedup]

Unstable is a great trait and I really appreciate it--especially that it's not focus. That enables multiclassing or other class concepts that touch on focus but don't waste everyone's time by piling in technological mastery with spellcasting capability. I'm glad they're separate.

Otherwise, I think this class is much more interesting and viable than you've come to the conclusion for. Maybe sit on it a bit, read a few threads, peruse the playtest document again, and come back to it? That's what I had to do with the Magus playtest before I had any viable feedback to offer.

[Nik Gervae]

shroudb wrote:

then you have the armor specialist (which is the weakest imo indeed) but still has inbuilt several different resistances including physical ones at highr levels.

Weakest overall, or as in does less damage? 'Cause I would expect an armor specialist to do less damage, but be able to take more. And, hopefully, draw it from the squishier party members. Hm, actually some kind of intercept or AoE-neutralizing gadget would be a cool class feat(ure).

[shroudb]

Nik Gervae wrote:

shroudb wrote:

then you have the armor specialist (which is the weakest imo indeed) but still has inbuilt several different resistances including physical ones at highr levels.

Weakest overall, or as in does less damage? 'Cause I would expect an armor specialist to do less damage, but be able to take more. And, hopefully, draw it from the squishier party members. Hm, actually some kind of intercept or AoE-neutralizing gadget would be a cool class feat(ure).

can't know without playing one, but it seems to me that he has the weakest (early) feat options and abilties compared to the other 2 paths.

maybe because it modifies such an integral part as "defense" it all equals out in the end, (especially with fire resist early on) but for me it lacks some of the "cool" and "strong" options of the other 2 paths.

[graystone]

shroudb wrote:

maybe because it modifies such an integral part as "defense" it all equals out in the end, (especially with fire resist early on) but for me it lacks some of the "cool" and "strong" options of the other 2 paths.

IMO the cool is from taking the fire resist armor and spamming overdrive and tamper as there is no real downside as the crit fail is fire damage. ;)

[HeHateMe]

I think Inventor needs a few changes, but is otherwise good. The biggest change is if they're going to make Intelligence the key ability, they need to base the class off of Intelligence. At minimum, Inventor needs to use Intelligence for attack rolls, otherwise it will have accuracy problems at every level, much like the Alchemist.

The second necessary change is hit points. They need to be at 10+Con, like other comparable martial classes.

Otherwise, I think just a couple minor tweaks are good enuff to get this class finalized.

[Angel Hunter D]

Sporkedup wrote:

Unstable is a great trait and I really appreciate it--especially that it's not focus. That enables multiclassing or other class concepts that touch on focus but don't waste everyone's time by piling in technological mastery with spellcasting capability. I'm glad they're separate.

Otherwise, I think this class is much more interesting and viable than you've come to the conclusion for. Maybe sit on it a bit, read a few threads, peruse the playtest document again, and come back to it? That's what I had to do with the Magus playtest before I had any viable feedback to offer.

It not being Focus is the thing wasting our time, by coming up with a new mechanic to do the same thing.

[Ashanderai]

Angel Hunter D wrote:

Sporkedup wrote:

Unstable is a great trait and I really appreciate it--especially that it's not focus. That enables multiclassing or other class concepts that touch on focus but don't waste everyone's time by piling in technological mastery with spellcasting capability. I'm glad they're separate.

Otherwise, I think this class is much more interesting and viable than you've come to the conclusion for. Maybe sit on it a bit, read a few threads, peruse the playtest document again, and come back to it? That's what I had to do with the Magus playtest before I had any viable feedback to offer.

It not being Focus is the thing wasting our time, by coming up with a new mechanic to do the same thing.

Um, no... I don't see it as a waste at all and I think keeping it separate from Focus is for the best.

[Martialmasters]

I pretty much just disagree, this post sounds more like dissolutionment with the system them a mark on the class. I could remove inventor from it and add another class name to a lot of your points.

[graystone]

Martialmasters wrote:

I pretty much just disagree, this post sounds more like dissolutionment with the system them a mark on the class.

It doesn't have to be either or. No reason it can't be disillusionment AND a mark against the system. ;)