Hi, and first of all, happy holidays to you all.
So, as for my actual question :
I'm playing on a campaign that is supposed to bring us from lvl 1 to 20. I'm playing a warpriest of Desna, and I went for a tanking/reach build. I know it's not optimal, but I've got things like combat reflexes, stand still, pushing assault, shield brace, power attack.
17 (+ at least 1)
14
14
10
15 (+ at least 1)
8
We're currently level 6. My problem is that I realized that with only 14 dex, I'll have to either put some of my stat points in dex when leveling, gear towards dex, or just stay stuck at 3 (or even 2 when enlarged) AoO per round, which seems low.
I discovered that I also could put 2 level in High Guardian to get
At 2nd level, a high guardian gains Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat, and he can use his Strength modifier instead of his Dexterity modifier to determine the number of additional attacks of opportunity he can make per round. If he already has Combat Reflexes, he instead gains Stand Still as a bonus feat.
This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 2nd level.
The big drawback is that i'm losing 2 level of warpriest, meaning I'm losing Sacred Weapon and Armor +5, an upgrade to fervor and Sacred Weapon damage, obviously my capstone, but mostly 2 lvl 6 spell slots.
I guess my question is : is it worth it to lose that much just to not have to invest in Dex somehow (or get stuck with 2-3 AoO per round on a reach build) ? Or does anybody have another solution ? Thanks in advance !
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Honestly, once the enemy figures out that you are quite skilled at reach attacks and AoO, they will do whatever they can to avoid them. I've played a Skald that used reach weapons and combat reflexes, and he did fine with 14 base dexterity (+dex items as he leveled).
Just get a belt of physical might/excellence/perfection to boost your Str/Dex/Con and call it good. Or, get the weapon enchantment Fortuitious to help out... or do both.
Thanks for the insight, but doesn't Fortuitous use your AoO (meaning if I have 3 AoO per round and make one + Fortuitous proc, I only have 1 left) ?
Well...
This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons. A fortuitous weapon grants the wielder more attacks of opportunity. Once per round, when the wielder of a fortuitous weapon hits with an attack of opportunity, he can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon against that foe at a –5 penalty..
Imagine a character without combat reflexes using the weapon. They don't have ANOTHER attack of opportunity to use in that round to make a second attack, if that second attack used one of their AoO's to function.
The bolded bit is important. The enchantment is granting +1 AoO for the use of its ability, though at a -5 to hit.
I'm playing a warpriest of Desna, and I went for a tanking/reach build.
Well, if you were to convert to Torag, you could learn his Divine Fighting Technique:
Way of Patient Strikes
Whenever you wield a warhammer, add your Wisdom bonus to the total number of attacks of opportunity that you can make per round. These additional attacks of opportunity don’t stack with those granted by Combat Reflexes, but this benefit counts as Combat Reflexes for the purpose of satisfying feat prerequisites and prestige class requirements. In addition, you can make attacks of opportunity while you’re flat-footed.
You could take 1 level in Sorcerer (Wildblooded: Empyreal) to learn the spell Line in the Sand (and get a Familiar & other stuff too). That would add your WIS modifier in additional AoO; however, since it's a 5ft burst, you'd have to place the area very carefully (or have your familiar do it).
The spell Litany of Warding is a worse option, imo, and it's a 2nd-level (anti-)paladin / 3rd-level inquisitor spell.
If you're an (Half-)Elf, you can take Elven Battle Training to get 1 additional AoO, but only when wielding an Elven weapon.
Also, if you're a Half-Elf, you could trade the racial trait Multitalented for the Arcane Training (Wizard) alternate racial trait. That way you could use a wand to cast Line in the Sand. I honestly have no idea what the ability score modifier is in that case though, since wands use the creator's abilities, not the user's. o_0
If you just want one extra AoO while efficiently increasing your Str via belt, a deep red sphere ioun stone gives +2 Dex for 8 000 gp.
I do agree with DeathlessOne that getting 3 AoOs in a round will be a sometimes thing once that GM's seen you in action for a while.
Thanks for all the help ! Theaitetos, sadly, most of what you're suggesting can't work for me (Desna is a roleplay choice, + Torag implies using a warhammer, and therefor losing the reach, and I'm a human). The spells could be interesting, but I think that losing one level of warpriest to get Line in the Sand might be worst than losing 2 and just go HAM on Str ? Nonetheless, I love these suggestion for later. I'd like to make another character like that, but a more optimized one, someday :)
Thanks to all the people that reassured me on the 14 Dex. I was kinda worried since I plan on taking Combat Patrol, therefore increasing my reach even more, and I feel like at a certain point, everybody will provoke, just because of the sheer area that I could cover ; like... caster is in the back, still provokes thanks to combat patrol, same for the archers, etc. It feels like they won't be able to do too much to prevent that, and that's why I was worried.
The Ioun Stone is a good idea, I'll check with my GM, she's kinda restrictive about Ioun Stones (she doesn't like players having a whole planetarium around their head^^').
I'm playing on a campaign that is supposed to bring us from lvl 1 to 20. I'm playing a warpriest of Desna, and I went for a tanking/reach build. I know it's not optimal, but I've got things like combat reflexes, stand still, pushing assault, shield brace, power attack.
How is Stand Still working out for you? Since it only works in adjacent squares it does seem like a bad choice for a reach build.
The Ioun Stone is a good idea, I'll check with my GM, she's kinda restrictive about Ioun Stones (she doesn't like players having a whole planetarium around their head^^').
Have you considered implanting them or putting it in a wayfinder?
Thanks to all the people that reassured me on the 14 Dex. I was kinda worried since I plan on taking Combat Patrol, therefore increasing my reach even more, and I feel like at a certain point, everybody will provoke, just because of the sheer area that I could cover ; like... caster is in the back, still provokes thanks to combat patrol, same for the archers, etc. It feels like they won't be able to do too much to prevent that, and that's why I was worried.
The Acrobatics skill is going to be your biggest pain-in-the-ass barrier to hitting people that move through your reach, as is any enemy that has Mobility for that added AC, or the Teamwork feat 'Escape Route'.
But, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
In my experience you rarely get more than 1 AoO per round. When you do, getting more than 2 is almost unheard of. I have had it happen (Surprise round, Flat-Footed, got charged by 3 Ghasts and managed to one-shot 2 of them with lucky rolls before they attacked me) but it's not something that'll happen every day, or even every level. Obviously some people might get more out of it than I have, but even then you're not going to need more than 2 AoOs per round most of the time.
In my opinion there are 2 main advantages to Combat Reflexes:
1. Enemies can't provoke with a move action just to avoid provoking with their standard, and can't "use-up" your AoOs to defend their allies (eg. provoke before casting a spell so that they don't have to make a concentration check to cast).
2. Losing Initiative doesn't matter so much. Enemies can't charge you and the party just because they surprised you, if they do they still have to get past your wall of steel (see the Ghast example above).
With that in mind, I think having 12 DEX and Combat Reflexes will see you through. You'll probably have 1 combat every 3 levels or so where you wish you had morez but you could keep a potion of Cats Grace on hand for that. Meanwhile if you took a 2 level dip you'd be regretting your lower level spells for 60% of the game.
There will be times when having more AoOs will be helpful, but they require a lot of setup - eg. Combat Patrol, or the "Come And Get Me" Rage power. While these can be great, I'd say Enlarge Person (and probably 14 DEX to start) and/or the Lunge feat will accomplish most of this.
I feel like at a certain point, everybody will provoke, just because of the sheer area that I could cover
You'll never cover more area than a double-Reach Spell'ed Mage Hand with the Throw Punch-Magic Trick though: 400ft + 40ft/cl. ;P
How is Stand Still working out for you? Since it only works in adjacent squares it does seem like a bad choice for a reach build.
To be honest, Stand Srill hasn't seen much use. I've put spikes on my plate in order to threaten adjascent squares. I expect I'll use it more once I have Combat Patrol (and even Pin Down), since I guess I could move up adjascent to the enemy and use it ? I kinda wish I took something else, like Phalanx Formation, but that's okay^^
Btw, is the roll from Stand Still opposed by AC or CMD ? I first thought AC since it is made as an AoO, but my gut tells me CMB is normally opposed by CMD.
Have you considered implanting them or putting it in a wayfinder?
No, simply because I never knew about those ! They sound really fun, and I'll pitch them to my DM. I still can only have on, but I guess this is going to help (she usually says that 1-5 ioun stone is fine, but more than that should become a bit distracting and tbh, I kinda agree^^)
About the fighting, so far, I usually run out of AoO, because we're often outnumbered. But I guess that since the campaign is setup around drows (we're playing Rise of the Drow), they'll usually have feats like mobility or high Acrobatics. I think I'll keep my Dex where it is now, stick to Warpriest and keep my eyes open for a Dex item that our Swashbuckler or Ranger don't want^^
I have had it happen (Surprise round, Flat-Footed, got charged by 3 Ghasts and managed to one-shot 2 of them with lucky rolls before they attacked me)
Happened to me a few times too with different enemies. Although I didn't kill anyone (I'm not very lucky usually^^), I love using Pushing Assault to break their charge. That gives my party almost a free turn to do stuff. My DM is usually playing fair with the logic of the enemies (zombies etc. are stupid, and therefor will not "learn" not to provoke, but once a barbarian tried to charge me and got halted, the next one simply walked up to me to hit me), and I don't really mind that.