Hi all. I had a pretty interesting idea for a character and I think I know how to build it mechanically. But I want to know if this will end up being painfully weak.
Unrogue (or ninja my GM allows unninja) 3 then spiritualist. I'm thinking knife master if rogue to dual wield kukris and flank with my spirit for sneak attack and general goodstuff. Thinking fractured mind spiritualist. Maybe could be convinced to take another archetype though.
The concept is basically joker from persona. A swift thief with a powerful magical friend and some casting.
Thoughts? Ways to do my concept better? Scrap it entirely maybe? What are y'all thinking here
With the phantom ally feat it works. Spiritualist spellcasting isn't the strongest, losing a spell level off it is doable. Fractured mind though, that implies you're doing something significant with Cha - what's that? Do you just prefer being a face rogue to a perceptive/strong willed one? Ed: Or is it the unninja ki pool?
Fractured mind is mostly a flavor thing. But I would probably end up being a face so charisma help there. If I go ninja then it also bumps my ki pool a little
The only real problem is you lose a level in phantom power and spell casting for every level of rogue you take. It really sucks because there is no divine version of an Arcane Trickster. Even so your phantom is based soley on the Spiritualist level.
Not knocking the idea at all. It does sound like a cool multiclass idea. One feat bumps your sneak attack by one. Take a Teamwork feat and you could get another D6 out of it. I know you have a theme but consider a Catfolk for race. A talent improves sneak to a D8 damage. Get flanking and you will wreck a monsters day.
There’s the Phantom Ally feat to boost the phantom’s level akin to Boon Companion to bolster the phantom enough to be full level, so that part isn’t really a problem.
There is the delay in actual spiritualist class abilities and spells, but most of the class abilities don’t really add much for a flanker unless there is a means of consistently giving the phantom reach. As for spell, not much that can be done there but sounds like going to have enough martial to make up for some of that.
Have you considered a half-orc skulking slayer rogue 3/ectoplasmist spiritualist X, instead? You don't get a flanking buddy automatically, but there are ways to gain an animal companion or familiar via feats (or using variant multiclassing; possibly VMC summoner for summon monster and an eidolon), and you can do a lot more with your ectoplasmic lashes than you can with kukris.
Have you considered a half-orc skulking slayer rogue 3/ectoplasmist spiritualist X, instead? You don't get a flanking buddy automatically, but there are ways to gain an animal companion or familiar via feats (or using variant multiclassing; possibly VMC summoner for summon monster and an eidolon), and you can do a lot more with your ectoplasmic lashes than you can with kukris.
While an interesting idea the theme of the character requires a phantom to work. I'm trying to optimise around a pretty specific set of rules. While I love the ectoplasmatist it doesn't fulfil the requirements I set upon myself
At least take 4 levels of UnRogue to get whatever you replace Uncanny Dodge with... like Ambush from Bandit giving you a swift AND a move AND a standard action during the surprise round... or Sneak Attack on a charge from Scout...
I do have 4 levels of wiggle room with my phantom. That's not a bad idea at all. Thanks
Oh that's very true. Me thinks that UnRogue 4/Fractured mind X is gonna be what I end up doing
So. What archetypes should I be taking to maximize my capabilities. Scout seems useful for getting into the fray. And as far as spiritualist goes should I be taking any other than fractured mind? What about feats. Obviously I need to shore up my phantom, but what else should I be taking. Normally I just use a guide for all this. But this idea seems rather unique and I'm not sure where to go for info
Those archetypes work for what you're doing. For feats phantom ally is required of course.
It's possible you might get teamwork feats, notably outflank and maybe improved outflank - while you can't share feats for free there's nothing stopping both you and the phantom taking them.
Otherwise all the usual rogue feats I guess. You won't be advancing sneak attack enough to make getting the ones dependent on sneak attack dice worthwhile though, aside from accomplished sneak attacker. Slow reactions might be a useful rogue talent to get to help get your phantom into position.
Thanks for all the help avr I really appreciate it. I'm not new to pathfinder. But optimizing weird builds is still beyond my game mastery
Would it be worth it to trade sneak attack since I won't have much SA dice and just focus on stacking damage and using my phantom for damage. It makes flanking less appealing but opens up some pretty fun options. I'm not sure how worth it would be though
If you lose sneak attack then you can't use that debilitating injury class feature. I don't know if any rogue archetype actually replaces debilitating injury and certainly neither of the two which replace sneak attack do. If you're taking unrogue for the dex-to-damage then you might as well stop at L3 if you replace sneak attack.
Of the two rogue archetypes I remember which replace sneak attack phantom thief is terrible, but dreamthief is OK and might be interesting for your particular multiclass. I'd probably stick with unninja or scout & maybe knife master unrogue, but YMMV.
Assuming I keep sneak attack is accomplished sneak attacker worth it
Yes it is. Not essential if you find yourself short of feats but it is worth one.
Wonderful. I think I have an outline for this character then. One last question. What emotion should my phantom be? None of them were really sticking out to me as particularly great other than anger. Which it may just be the best option
Hatred's nearly as good in a fight and noticeably sneakier. Lust and kindness are good at protecting their master (Ed: lust probably doesn't work with fractured mind, kindness also has the best SLAs), fear is the sneakiest of all.
Hatred may be the best all-round, but any of those could work, they just put a different emphasis on things.
Thanks for all the advice. This is gonna be a real fun character. I think I finally have all the pieces so I can start assembling him. Thanks all