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As the title.
As I've been growing in level, I've been having a hard time with acquiring spells that I want as more and more of them are having rarity tags that I can't seem to bypass. Uncommon or Rare spells are becoming the norm these days and I'm struggling to be able to select other spells I want as a result, because they just don't have the sort of thing I'm looking for a spell to accomplish.
I mean, I have received a couple uncommon spells from simply playing the game, but there are just so many other ones that I want to have as well, but it's unclear or seemingly improbable to acquire these spells.
Are there ways I'm missing to find or acquire these spells, or am I just at the whims of my GM in this case?
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The answer is talk to your GM. Availability of Uncommon and Rare spells being up to how the GM wants them to be available or not available in that campaign is the whole point of the rarity on spells, in general (unlike archetypes with access conditions, or the like).
Yeah, the guidance is basically to talk to your GM, with the general guidelines that uncommon spells shouldn't be too hard to acquire with effort and rare things might be difficult and therefore rewards for particular quests or missions.
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On my much limited that I would like experience on PF2, uncommon spells are somewhat accessible, but rare are not (not that there are that many rare spells), and specially not Rituals. From what I see, the fact that all relevant to rituals is Uncommon makes them near non existent. More people share that?
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Echoing "talk to the GM" most spells are uncommon or rare because they have the potential to completely trivialize certain kinds of stories (e.g. mystery stories). After all, if you can detect lies it's super hard to run a whodunnit, if you can teleport it's super hard to run an overland travel story, etc.
Uncommon things are also uncommon for diagetic purposes- if raising the dead were common in the settinng, then death would be minimally inconvenient for anybody sufficiently rich- and this isn't really a recognizable world anymore. No Wizard who learns Anti-Magic Field is going to want to teach that spell to anybody who could use it against them.
But uncommon things are also such that "anybody sufficiently dedicated should be able to figure out where to find this" so unless your GM has a specific reason that you not having a specific spell is important, you just need to figure out "how much downtime is this going to cost me" or whatever.
Don't ask for rare stuff. Rare stuff should only be there because the GM wants it there. If your GM never puts rare things in their stories, you might want to point out that "rare things, being exclusively the purview of the GM, are inherently more exciting" or something like that.
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As a DM, I LOVE it when my casters ask me for rare and uncommon spells. They make fantastic loot for them, and depending on the spell, I can even make a neat side quest from it.
From my experience, most uncommon stuff won't shake up the game too much, and most rare stuff is often times more of a niche uncommon thing than it is rare because it's OP.
I also preemptively give out uncommon spells even when not prompted and my players often enjoy it, even if it's something as simple as a reskinned version of telekinetic assault that deals electric damage instead
The way they wrote it, it is 100% up to the GM to decide. As I player admittingly I am not a huge fan of having to ask the GM about every little detail I want to use.
Quite a few uncommon/rare things I understand why they are that way though. For example is Scrying/Teleport can really be against what the GM wishes for their game.
The reverse is probably worse though. For example with PF1 when I made my character I originally made it all around an Astral Eidolin and all the fun summon monster feats since I wasn't told anything was disallowed. Since I wanted to be a "Summoner".
I guess the same thing can happen in PF2 because nothing prevents common things from being banned by the GM. At least for now PF2 doesn't seem to have many "broken" things so I would guess most GMs would allow this stuff.
With problem is PFS. I was so exciting for all the fun races/heritages and wanted to try them out in PFS then found out I can't use any options without spending my hard earn points :(
I really was disappointed when I have to ask the GM to play every new race. Since they are super flavorful and fun.
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This thread is a good PSA for GMs to do this.
I'm definitely going to include some uncommon spells in spellbooks or as scrolls to find/acquire now
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most GMs would allow this stuff.
With problem is PFS. I was so exciting for all the fun races/heritages and wanted to try them out in PFS then found out I can't use any options without spending my hard earn points :(
I really was disappointed when I have to ask the GM to play every new race. Since they are super flavorful and fun.
That was the case in PF1, wasn't it? I remember people needing boons to play Tieflings and such.
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For PFS, yes. Most of the non-core races required a boon to unlock (most of them from GMing at cons), though a few were considered always available, and which ones they were came from the society metaphor and changed a bit over the course of seasons.
I believe one if the main goals of the ACP setup was so that fancy boon-accessed stuff wouldn't only be available to people that could make it to cons.
I really was disappointed when I have to ask the GM to play every new race. Since they are super flavorful and fun.
They are flavorful and fun, but as PossibleCabbage said above, there's an element of suspending disbelief here. If 90% of the people in your world are human, it's going to be awkward when a tiefling, a dhampir, an hobgoblin, and an aasimar walk into the tavern together.
Maybe your GM doesn't mind. Maybe your GM has planned for it. Maybe the world isn't as mono-ancestry as 90% human. But that's why you need to talk with your GM. It's not a big deal - no bigger than if your party wants to go without a melee combatant and just asks the GM, "You cool with this?"
In PFS, the compromise is that players can buy the ancestry with loyalty points, and GMs aren't allowed to take it into account in the story. It's not an ideal system, but allows people to play with strangers, which is they whole point of Org Play.
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If 90% of the people in your world are human, it's going to be awkward when a tiefling, a dhampir, an hobgoblin, and an aasimar walk into the tavern together.
But then you have to take into account what percentage of each race are adventurers and/or chances you're going to have of 4 random adventurers, by chance, walk into the same bar... I don't see race much of a stretch compared to how far you have to stretch for multiple adventurers. ;)
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At the very least "we're going to be a really unusual looking group" is the sort of thing that's important to at least bounce off the GM, if for nothing else but to head off "and NPCs are going to freaked out by it."
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At the very least "we're going to be a really unusual looking group" is the sort of thing that's important to at least bounce off the GM, if for nothing else but to head off "and NPCs are going to freaked out by it."
Considering how progressive and PC Golarion is meant to be, I really don't think "A lizardfolk, catfolk, tengu, and goblin are a group of adventurers traveling the lands" should bother, well...anyone. Unless they're Evil or something.
But hey, that's a great way for a Champion to be able to detect evil and smite them for great justice.
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I mean, I've joked about how the parties in games I run tend to be like "an octopus centaur, an ambulatory void, a plant, and one human who needed the bonus feat for their build". So obviously I don't have a problem with weird groups and I'm not inclined to make it an issue.
But some GMs are, and you probably want to spot that sort of thing in advance.
At the very least "we're going to be a really unusual looking group" is the sort of thing that's important to at least bounce off the GM, if for nothing else but to head off "and NPCs are going to freaked out by it."Considering how progressive and PC Golarion is meant to be, I really don't think "A lizardfolk, catfolk, tengu, and goblin are a group of adventurers traveling the lands" should bother, well...anyone. Unless they're Evil or something.
LOL yeah... Once you let goblins in as Common, it's hard to imagine how race picks could go sideways. :P
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If 90% of the people in your world are human, it's going to be awkward when a tiefling, a dhampir, an hobgoblin, and an aasimar walk into the tavern together.
This argument always feels weird to me, because if you're playing a PC in a heroic fantasy game like Pathfinder, you're by definition already outside the realm of normalcy. You're not even the 10%, maybe not even a 1%.
At that point whether you're a human, gnome or tiefling feels almost of secondary concern.
I am new to PFS and definitely have no idea how it worked for PF1. Sounds like it was worse.
Of course I have plenty of fun with all common races. About the whole human thing + free feat I am so happy PF2 allows for versatile heritage.
It allows players to get the feat if they really want it while having an interesting race. Not to mention the ability to take adopted ancestry if you like a racial feature but dont want the race
So in my main campaign I am actually a half elf because I love elves in general and like all those nice options between elf/human.
I am so glad the APG had almost all common archetypes for PFS. They even have some fun ways to unlock the rarer ones.
Truly though I kind of want to play a ratfolk and spending all my points on it feels kind of rough. I guess it is just my opinion but I feel PFS would be 100% better with no race limitations. Yes you would have weird mixes of races but IMO that just adds to the fun.
Then again I am probably someone who would pretty much have no issue with any of the uncommon or rare options.
Out of curiosity do more people play with tight limitations of uncommon/rare or pretty much anything goes?
Off the top of my head I feel that most uncommon/rare spells/feats are super flavorful.
Very specifically, Here is a link to Archive of Nethys where the rule on learning a new spell is listed:
http://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=25
As the others have noted, any Uncommon, Rare or Unique item is gated behind the GM's approval, so you aren't using the above rule to bypass that. But once it's approved, that is how you go about acquiring it.
This is most useful for Wizards, who will use it to add spells of any rarity to their book (aside from the few they gain naturally via leveling up). It is also useful to other spellcasters who wish to learn uncommon, rare and unique spells.
One way to gain access to Uncommon spells is through your Deity choice. Pulura offers Teleport, Nocticula has Nondetection, Nivi Rhombodazzle has Private Sanctum, Ma'at has Mind Probe, Dranngvit has Passwall, Zon-Kuthon with Shadow Walk. Almost every spell from Gods and Magic is on some God's granted list. I'm sure there are more.
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One way to gain access to Uncommon spells is through your Deity choice. Pulura offers Teleport, Nocticula has Nondetection, Nivi Rhombodazzle has Private Sanctum, Ma'at has Mind Probe, Dranngvit has Passwall, Zon-Kuthon with Shadow Walk. Almost every spell from Gods and Magic is on some God's granted list. I'm sure there are more.
The deity does not give access to the spell, only the weapon. You must still learn the spell as normal, the deity just allows you to learn and prepare it
Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric.
Preparing just like any spell on the divine list means... only common spells and other stuff to which you have access, which nothing in the deity text gives you.
When you think about it, it would be weird if you died in the middle of a travel segment of the campaign, rerolled into a common deity that grants Teleport (like Pulura) and just voided that entire section of the campaign... Something rarity tags were trying to avoid happening.
The deity does not give access to the spell, only the weapon. You must still learn the spell as normal, the deity just allows you to learn and prepare it
Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric.Preparing just like any spell on the divine list means... only common spells and other stuff to which you have access, which nothing in the deity text gives you.
When you think about it, it would be weird if you died in the middle of a travel segment of the campaign, rerolled into a common deity that grants Teleport (like Pulura) and just voided that entire section of the campaign... Something rarity tags were trying to avoid happening.
While it would be more clear if they said that you gain "access" to those spells, I think the language that "you can prepare these spells" does mean the same thing. Might be appropriate for a new thread.