So, back when I tried 5e D&D to see how it played (I did not like it in the slightest compared to 3.5e/PF), I made a rogue with Str greater than or equal to his Dex, who specialized in grappling foes, following up by tripping, and sneak attacking with a longsword. In play, it worked out rather well.
However, I loved the character concept I had come up with and would like to recreate it for Pathfinder; a strong-rogue that engaged in overwhelming grappling techniques and hitting them where it hurts, while also being a bit of a cat-burglar (the upper body strength helping with the climbing).
So, I could use some input in:
Whether sneak attacking with a weapon while grappling is possible (not with standard grapple damage; with an actual weapon);
What class/archetype/feats, if any, would allow such maneuvers (rogue or slayer seems the right class, but other classes might also be applicable).
Race-wise, it was homebrew for 5e, but I based it off the PF rougarou (Bestiary 6), so race is already figured out.
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snakebite brawler.
slayer is good too.
But, you can't really deal damage with weapons while grappling, unless you have an extra arm. (IIRC) there may be ways around this, but I don't recall them. I'd suggest a monk type, or at least a dip. And you can flavor your unarmed damage as brass knuckles or something.
Grappling an enemy doesn't deny them their dex bonus (nor does tripping/prone), so you'd need another means of enabling sneak attack to do it. Flanking should be pretty easy to set up when the target can't move. There's a dirty grapple feat which allows you to combine a grapple attempt and a dirty trick attempt, dirty tricks can set up sneak attacks if flanking isn't enough for you. Actually, a dirty trick might represent the 'grapple & trip' you did in 5e better than a grapple would.
So...a grappler, a dirty tricker, or some combination of the two? Combining will obviously be harder than specialising in one or the other.
Edit: and yes you can deal damage with a weapon while grappling. Just not at level 1.
Hmm... the Snakebite Brawler doesn't work out due to a general lack of skill points and thievery skills.
The dirty trick/grapple feat mentioned only works if you are not the one controlling the grapple, so it's a victim-only feat.
Reading the grapple rules, I don't see where in the rules it says you can't attack with a weapon while grappling at all. It says with a successful grapple check (as part of the standard action made to maintain the grapple), you can do the following:
"Damage: You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal."
This makes it sound like you don't need an attack roll, period. The only hurdle is dealing with the -4 penalty for grappling with one hand (since one would be holding the weapon).
Dirty grapple works whether you're initiating or maintaining a grapple. It doesn't work when defending, either you're looking at a different feat or you misread it.
While you can technically attack with a weapon during a grapple that's a nasty penalty at L1. My minimum set of feats for this would be improved grapple (and its prereq IUS or dirty fighting) and grabbing style. As a nonhuman wanting to be one of the roguish classes you'll be higher than L1 with those feats.
So, grapple, dirty trick, or both?
Ah, I was looking at Opportunistic Grappler, which is where the confusion came in, since they both deal with grapple and dirty trick.
Grapple would be preferable, since the original character didn't have the Intelligence to get Improved Dirty Trick, and brawler is certainly not fitting thematically speaking or otherwise. If it proves infeasible though, the concept would be subject to tweaking.
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UNchained rogue 3 (get dex to damage, evasion)
Brawler 2(Snakebite, gets flurry and more sneak attack)
Slayer 6+(bounty hunter, gets good stuff)
Submission Hold (Ex): At 6th level, when a bounty hunter attempts a grapple combat maneuver check to deal damage, he can choose to add his sneak attack damage to the grapple damage for that attack. He takes a –5 penalty on the combat maneuver check if he does this. This sneak attack damage is nonlethal damage, unless the bounty hunter is able to deal normal damage with a grapple and chooses to do so. This ability replaces the slayer talent gained at 6th level.
The dirty fighting feat bypasses a bunch of prereqs including Int for dirty trick. But supposing you want to get into grappling anyway you might do it this way as a slayer.
1: dirty fighting
Slayer talent 2: ranger combat style (faithful: Kurgess) - improved grapple
3: grabbing style
ST 4: combat trick - strangler
5: power attack
ST 6: ranger combat style 2 - greater grapple
Apparently it is possible to make a grapple do sneak attack damage, that's the strangler feat I listed there. Despite the name it doesn't require you to fight unarmed. Kurgess seems like a not inappropriate patron deity for your character, and his ranger combat style certainly fits.
The dirty fighting feat bypasses a bunch of prereqs including Int for dirty trick. But supposing you want to get into grappling anyway you might do it this way as a slayer.
1: dirty fighting
Slayer talent 2: ranger combat style (faithful: Kurgess) - improved grapple
3: grabbing style
ST 4: combat trick - strangler
5: power attack
ST 6: ranger combat style 2 - greater grappleApparently it is possible to make a grapple do sneak attack damage, that's the strangler feat I listed there. Despite the name it doesn't require you to fight unarmed. Kurgess seems like a not inappropriate patron deity for your character, and his ranger combat style certainly fits.
This is actually quite helpful, thanks. Also, one can use Slayer Talents to take Rogue talents that grant Improved Dirty Trick or Improved Trip, ignoring prerequisites as well. Combining this with the feat Extra Slayer Talent, and I should be able to recreate this character quite well. I could also take the Ranger Style "Underhanded" to acquire Improved, Greater, and Quick Dirty Trick, and use regular feats to acquire the Grapple stuff, since one needs Improved Unarmed Strike to acquire Strangler anyway.
Okay, I think I have a feat & slayer talent progression all the way up to 20. I decided to focus more on feinting and tripping instead of dirty tricks, since tripping is also done to allow allies AoO.
1st: Dirty Fighting
ST 2: Rogue Talent -> Combat Trick -> Improved Grapple
3rd: Strangler
ST 4: Trapfinding (because he is a burglar, after-all, will also give him a trait so he has Disable Device as a class skill at 1st-level).
5th: Slayer’s Feint (use Acrobatics instead of Bluff when feinting)
ST 6: Ranger Combat Style (Deceptive) -> Improved Feint
7th: Grabbing Style (requires Improved Grapple and BAB +6 since I lack the class features)
ST 8: Rogue Talent – Unbalancing Trick (grants Improved Trip)
9th: Accomplished Sneak Attacker
ST 10: Ranger Combat Style -> Greater Feint
11th: Greater Grapple
ST 12: Jaguar’s Grace (to qualify for Jaguar's Pounce)
13th: Body Shield ("Get 'em off me!" *gets stabbed by allies*)
ST 14: Ranger Combat Style -> Passing Trick (free feint after tumble)
15th: Extra Slayer Talent (Jaguar’s Pounce; free trip after sneak attack)
ST 16: Evasion
17th: Grabbing Drag
ST 18: Feat (Grabbing Master)
19th: Greater Trip
ST 20: Fast Stealth (up in the air with this one, ran out of stuff that fits the combat build)