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Can my dwarven warpriest wield a Large Dorn-Dergar two-handed with the -2 attack penalty? YAPCG isn't allowing it and when it blocks something I begin to question whether I've misinterpreted the rules.
Assuming I can, what is the range of my reach? I am unable to verify whether the range of a reach weapon is based on the size of the weapon or the size of the wielder.
Thank you in advanced.
ok... thank you.
So I can wield a (medium) Dorn-Dergar enchanted with Impact (large dmg) and enlarge person myself to get to huge damage, but I can't start with a large Dorn-Dergar and get to gigantic damage.... would have been awesome!!
Also, I noticed the Monkey grip feat would have made this possible but it didn't make the jump from 3.5 to Pathfinder... bummer.
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What everyone else said about wielding a large weapon.
But to answer this particular question:
Assuming I can, what is the range of my reach? I am unable to verify whether the range of a reach weapon is based on the size of the weapon or the size of the wielder.
Large or larger creatures using reach weapons can strike up to double their natural reach but can’t strike at their natural reach or less.
It's based on the size of the wielder.
YAPCG is allowing it!! But it is imposing a -4 weapon/wielder size penalty. Is this expected with only a single level in Titan Fighter?
It looks legit.. -2 for inappropriate sized, and and additional -2 for the DD being 2handed
There is a trait that cuts the penalty in half. There are gauntlets that reduce that penalty by 2.
You can get the -4 down to 0
I'd be very interested in the name of either if you know it. I can not seem to find either of them.
These are the gauntlets in question. I can't find such a trait, either.
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I believe Name Violation was referring to Giant Blooded.
. . .When you wield a weapon that is larger than your size, the penalty on attack rolls for using inappropriately sized weapons is reduced by half. . .
There's room for discussion about whether this would reduce the penalty by -1 or -2. (It depends on whether you read the Titan Fighter's "takes an additional –2 penalty on attack rolls when using an oversized two-handed weapon" as being a penalty for inappropriate size or just a flat penalty for the ability.) I personally agree that it's for the inappropriate size.
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Dorn Dergar Master feat lets you wield a Dorn Dergar as a one handed weapon.
In theory, that would allow you to wield an oversized Dorn Dergar as a two-handed weapon.
Trait = Giant Blooded
Dorn Dergar Master feat lets you wield a Dorn Dergar as a one handed weapon.
In theory, that would allow you to wield an oversized Dorn Dergar as a two-handed weapon.
Thanks Claxon. I'd seen the "mastery" feat but didn't think it would help me since I had no intention of wielding the DD single handed. Hadn't occurred to me about the size difference making this feat super useful.. I hate I have to pick up TWF but.....
So with the DD mastery feat, Do I still need a level of Titan Fighter ???
--apparently not. I replaced the level of Titan Fighter with the two feats (TWF and DD Master) and I seem to be at the same point. I'm currently at a -1 penalty to attack rolls due to the weapon being over sized.
So now the question is, since my Warpriest is kinda Feat limited, which is better? One level of Titan Fighter OR spending two feats???
Warpriests get a lot of bonus feats, cause they're a cleric mixed with fighter. Delaying your other Warpriest abilities coming on line sucks more, in my opinion, than spending two feats on this.
I think Warpriests end up with more feats than basically anyone except a pure fighter.
Besides, you basically only need power attack as another feat to have a basic melee build.
Then you can consider things like combat reflexes to "lock down" a large area with your reach weapon. And spells like divine fury/power and righteous might will kind of complete your combat package.
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So with the DD mastery feat, Do I still need a level of Titan Fighter ???
--apparently not. I replaced the level of Titan Fighter with the two feats (TWF and DD Master) and I seem to be at the same point. I'm currently at a -1 penalty to attack rolls due to the weapon being over sized.
So now the question is, since my Warpriest is kinda Feat limited, which is better? One level of Titan Fighter OR spending two feats???
Depends on your campaign and your overall build. Dorn-Dergar Master requires BAB +4 and Two-Weapon Fighting. So a warpriest couldn't get DDM until 6th level at the earliest. TWF, in turn, requires a Dex of 15.
One level of Titan Fighter is a clean "you can do this at 1st level and don't need any dex" solution with a tax of delaying everything else warpriests get one level. Pure warpriest would have a feat tax but melee warpriests generally have a pretty good number of feats to begin with.
If you are already planning on having a decent dex and don't mind waiting to use your large weapon until 6th level, go warpriest. Otherwise take the fighter level.
Depends on your campaign and your overall build. Dorn-Dergar Master requires BAB +4 and Two-Weapon Fighting. So a warpriest couldn't get DDM until 6th level at the earliest. TWF, in turn, requires a Dex of 15.
We started our characters for this campaign at level 5, so even with that in mind, my character could have just used a medium sized DD for one level until meeting the requirements to wield his heirloom DD...
I guess the dex requirement is a good point.
Normally a strength based warpriest would invest in str, and wisdom. And would now need str, dex, and wisdom. Of course, a lot of the warpriest strength in spellcasting doesn't require having high wisdom. You're best spells are your self buff and condition removal. You don't need high wisdom to have it function.
If you're playing a 20 pt buy game, you could start (without racial modification) with a 16 str, 15 dex, 10 con, 10 int, 12 wis, 10 cha. Look for a race with a str & wisdom bonus. 14 wisdom is fine as long as your not casting offensive spells.
And since you can heal yourself with fervor and spells (as quick actions) hp is less important.
If you can convince your GM to allow it, there's a 3rd party feat that allows you to ignore the dex requirement for two weapon fighting feats.
^Or use EitR, so you only need the 15 base (+2 with eventual belt) dex for improved two weapon fighting.
So how long is a large dorn-dergar? Being a medium creature, my reach is 10’, lunge take it to ‘15. If I “enlarge self/person” myself to “large”, my normal threat range is 10’(?), reach takes it to 15’(?), lunge takes it to 20’(?).
If I take the “mighty frame feat”, could I wield a “huge” DD (two-handed, with DD Mastery)? Enchanted with Impact (gigantic dmg) and if enlarged goes to “titanic”(?)????
Does the “Devastating Strike” feat work as well as I’m thinking it will? Wielding the large DD, my current damage is 6d6+8 (with VS). DS would add +6 now and really take off once I get improved VS and greater??
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So how long is a large dorn-dergar? Being a medium creature, my reach is 10’, lunge take it to ‘15. If I “enlarge self/person” myself to “large”, my normal threat range is 10’(?), reach takes it to 15’(?), lunge takes it to 20’(?).
Large with a reach weapon would threaten up to 20’ (but you couldn’t attack at 5’ or 10’). Lunge would be able to attack at 25’ (but still not 5’ or 10’).
If I take the “mighty frame feat”, could I wield a “huge” DD (two-handed, with DD Mastery)? Enchanted with Impact (gigantic dmg) and if enlarged goes to “titanic”(?)????
Maybe. It’s going to be completely up to your GM, as
1) Mighty Frame is a 3rd party-publisher feat.2) Both mighty frame and Titan Fighter allow you to wield weapons designed for a creature “one size category larger (than himself)”. Personally I would say those effects overlap and do not stack.
If your GM allows it, then yes, enlarged impact on a huge DD would result in colossal damage.
Does the “Devastating Strike” feat work as well as I’m thinking it will? Wielding the large DD, my current damage is 6d6+8 (with VS). DS would add +6 now and really take off once I get improved VS and greater??
No it’s not quite as good as you think. You don’t get any additional benefit once the number of extra dice you are adding from VS exceeds three. The MAXIMUM amount of additional damage you can do is +6. Improved Vital Strike wouldn’t do anything to the Devastating Strike damage if you’re already doing 3d6 base before Vital Striking.
No it’s not quite as good as you think. You don’t get any additional benefit once the number of extra dice you are adding from VS exceeds three. The MAXIMUM amount of additional damage you can do is +6. Improved Vital Strike wouldn’t do anything to the Devastating Strike damage if you’re already doing 3d6 base before Vital Striking.
I read someone else’s interpretation of it as +2 for VS, +4 for IVS and +6 for GVS. That’s where the +6 maximum came from... +6 PER die, not +6 extra damage overall. The feat could have been way better worded to remove ambiguity.
Combining 1 level of fighter/Titan Fighter with the “Giant Blood” trait with the Dorn-Dergar Master feat... my dwarven warpriest (level 8 total) is able to wield a huge DD with Impact at a -2 attack penalty (8d8 with vital strike) or the same DD BUT Gargantuan at a -3 attack penalty (12d8 with VS).
Greater weapon of the chosen gives me two shots at hitting to hopefully counter the -3 to hit penalty.
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Combining 1 level of fighter/Titan Fighter with the “Giant Blood” trait with the Dorn-Dergar Master feat... my dwarven warpriest (level 8 total) is able to wield a huge DD with Impact at a -2 attack penalty (8d8 with vital strike) or the same DD BUT Gargantuan at a -3 attack penalty (12d8 with VS).
Greater weapon of the chosen gives me two shots at hitting to hopefully counter the -3 to hit penalty.
but you'll still get more damage from a butchers axe or split blade sword doing the same oversized shenanigans.
also dont forget about the growing weapon ability. can add 1 more increase that stacks with everything else
If I min/max this character any more, I’ll get kicked out!! I’ll add in wands of enlarged self/ person until I can cast righteous might to give myself one more damage boost. Devastating Strike & Power Attack/ Furious Focus are on my list, along with a couple others.
The Dorn-Dergar is easier to “pull off” / plausible with my dwarven warpriest, plus it give me reach which I wouldn’t get with either the butchers axe or split blade sword.
Plus I get free proficiency with the DD since it’s Dwarven.
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If I min/max this character any more, I’ll get kicked out!! I’ll add in wands of enlarged self/ person until I can cast righteous might to give myself one more damage boost. Devastating Strike & Power Attack/ Furious Focus are on my list, along with a couple others.
The Dorn-Dergar is easier to “pull off” / plausible with my dwarven warpriest, plus it give me reach which I wouldn’t get with either the butchers axe or split blade sword.
Plus I get free proficiency with the DD since it’s Dwarven.
is enlarge person on your spell list?
if not you'll want potions, but don't forget about the actions to draw/use them
and since you're not caring about the scaling damage, are you using the Arsenal Chaplin archetype?
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Combining 1 level of fighter/Titan Fighter with the “Giant Blood” trait with the Dorn-Dergar Master feat... my dwarven warpriest (level 8 total) is able to wield a huge DD with Impact at a -2 attack penalty (8d8 with vital strike) or the same DD BUT Gargantuan at a -3 attack penalty (12d8 with VS).
Can you walk me through how you’re getting all these size increases? Dorn-Dergar Master doesn’t stack with Titan Fighter for this purpose. And I’m not sure where the “Gargantuan” is coming from at all.
Titan Fighter specifically only allows you to
wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons.
Combining 1 level of fighter/Titan Fighter with the “Giant Blood” trait with the Dorn-Dergar Master feat... my dwarven warpriest (level 8 total) is able to wield a huge DD with Impact at a -2 attack penalty (8d8 with vital strike) or the same DD BUT Gargantuan at a -3 attack penalty (12d8 with VS).Can you walk me through how you’re getting all these size increases? Dorn-Dergar Master doesn’t stack with Titan Fighter for this purpose. And I’m not sure where the “Gargantuan” is coming from at all.
Titan Fighter specifically only allows you to
wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons.
DD Master turns the DD into a one handed weapon. You can wield any one handed weapon that’s larger than your normal as a 2 handed with -2 attack penalty per size category. Giant blooded trait cuts this penalty in half. Large -2, huge -4 gigantic -6 (but the trait makes this -3). Impact enchanted on the DD bumps up the damage again but no additional penalty to hit. The gigantic DD does 4d8, with impact it does 6d8, vital strike doubles the die to 12d8
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Ah, I see your problem. You can wield any one-handed weapon that’s *one* size category larger than your normal as a two-handed weapon with a -2 penalty. You cannot wield a one-handed weapon that’s *more than one* size category larger than your normal at all.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
Ah, I see your problem. You can wield any one-handed weapon that’s *one* size category larger than your normal as a two-handed weapon with a -2 penalty. You cannot wield a one-handed weapon that’s *more than one* size category larger than your normal at all.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
Giant Weapon Wielder (Ex)
At 1st level, a titan fighter can wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons. He takes an additional –2 penalty on attack rolls when using an over-sized two-handed weapon.Huge one handed DD (due to DD Master feat) becomes large two handed DD, and Giant weapon wielder lets me wield a two handed large weapon. -4 attack penalty (-2 large + -2 for huge), which giant blood trait cuts in half. -2 attack penalty for GWW (were at -4 total now), Irongrip gauntlets reduces penalty by two. Total attack penalty is -2.
Does this work? I misunderstood the light becomes one handed becomes two handed conundrum as weapon size increases.
Plus, impact enchantment bumps damage to gigantic. Enlarge self/person... colossal dmg???
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The problem is the wording of Giant Weapon Wielder.
can wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons.
A medium-size Giant Weapon Wielder (dwarf, for example) can only use the ability on weapons that are intended to be used two-handed by Large Creatures. Even though a large creature can use a huge rapier as a two-handed weapon it is not intended to be used by a large creature at all. Even though a large creature with Dorn-Dergar Master could use a huge Dorn-Dergar as a two-handed weapon, it isn't intended to be used by a large creature.
This isn't me reading something extra into the language of the Titan Fighter. The section on oversized weapons in the Core Rulebook is literally called "Inappropriately Sized Weapons."
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder.
A huge one-handed weapon may be wieldable as a two-handed weapon by a large creature, but that does not make it a two-handed weapon intended for a large creature.
I hope you realize that Giant-Blooded is a campaign trait from the Giantslayer AP, you can only select it if playing that AP.
So a "Large" Dorn-Dergar is OK since DD Master makes it a one handed weapon so my dwarf can wield it two handed (without the Titan Fighter level). One size category bigger applies a -2 attack penalty. We are NOT playing any particular campaign setting (complete homebrew everything) so my DM/GM is allowing the Giant-Blooded trait since in this scenario it's only reducing the attack penalty by 1. Large DD does 2d8 dmg, with impact enchantment it'll do 3d8, with enlarge it'll go up to 4d8, vital strike doubles the die.
With no mechanism in the game for my dwarven warpriest to get up to an actual huge dorn-dergar???
Can I use a bucker (and actually gain an AC benefit) while wielding a large dorn-dergar??
If you take unhindering shield, yes.