I am losing my mind. Not long ago I found a bloodline, or a feat, or something that removed/replaced/altered a bloodline arcana to do +1 damage per damage die on spells of a school that the character had taken spell focus in.
For the life of me I can find no sign of it anywhere. As if my inner self gets off on withholding the memory. Please help.
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Bloodline mutations are what you want to look at.
Java Man wrote: Bloodline mutations are what you want to look at. Vecna bless you.
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Ezzard wrote: Java Man wrote: Bloodline mutations are what you want to look at. Vecna bless you.
Ummm, is that something I want? My gut (or is that soul?) says I should avoid anything from Vecna...
Java Man wrote: Ezzard wrote: Java Man wrote: Bloodline mutations are what you want to look at. Vecna bless you.
Ummm, is that something I want? My gut (or is that soul?) says I should avoid anything from Vecna... No replacement body parts were offered, you're probably OK.
Ezzard wrote: I am losing my mind. Not long ago I found a bloodline, or a feat, or something that removed/replaced/altered a bloodline arcana to do +1 damage per damage die on spells of a school that the character had taken spell focus in.
For the life of me I can find no sign of it anywhere. As if my inner self gets off on withholding the memory. Please help.
sounds like you want to do a blasty blasty sorc, might i suggest, crossblooded bloodlines (orc and draconic or solar). then at level 7 when you get your bonus feat you can pick up blood havoc for a total of +3 damage per dice for fire spells +2 for any other spell as long as you have sell focus for that school and at minimum +1 to spell damage if its not fire nor has spell focus.
vhok wrote: Ezzard wrote: I am losing my mind. Not long ago I found a bloodline, or a feat, or something that removed/replaced/altered a bloodline arcana to do +1 damage per damage die on spells of a school that the character had taken spell focus in.
For the life of me I can find no sign of it anywhere. As if my inner self gets off on withholding the memory. Please help.
sounds like you want to do a blasty blasty sorc, might i suggest, crossblooded bloodlines (orc and draconic or solar). then at level 7 when you get your bonus feat you can pick up blood havoc for a total of +3 damage per dice for fire spells +2 for any other spell as long as you have sell focus for that school and at minimum +1 to spell damage if its not fire nor has spell focus. I could be wrong but I was under the impression Blood mutations could not stack with Crossblooded or Wildblooded Sorcs.
Correct, you cannot take a mutation in place of a power thwt was altered by an archetype.
I also am unsure if you can take the same mutation twice, bonuses from same source not stacking and such.
Java Man wrote: Correct, you cannot take a mutation in place of a power thwt was altered by an archetype. But you can take a mutation instead of one of the bloodline bonus feats.
Quote: Bloodline Mutations:
Alternatively, a bloodrager or sorcerer can select a bloodline mutation in place of a bloodline bonus feat, provided her class level is at least equal to the level of the bloodline ability the mutation normally replaces.
That is why I said pick it up at 7 as your bloodline feat
Theaitetos wrote: Java Man wrote: Correct, you cannot take a mutation in place of a power thwt was altered by an archetype. But you can take a mutation instead of one of the bloodline bonus feats.
Quote: Bloodline Mutations:
Alternatively, a bloodrager or sorcerer can select a bloodline mutation in place of a bloodline bonus feat, provided her class level is at least equal to the level of the bloodline ability the mutation normally replaces.
Crossblooded still alters or replaces how the bonus feats actually work. I enjoy the idea of more damage, but I don't see this working.
Ezzard wrote: Theaitetos wrote: Java Man wrote: Correct, you cannot take a mutation in place of a power thwt was altered by an archetype. But you can take a mutation instead of one of the bloodline bonus feats.
Quote: Bloodline Mutations:
Alternatively, a bloodrager or sorcerer can select a bloodline mutation in place of a bloodline bonus feat, provided her class level is at least equal to the level of the bloodline ability the mutation normally replaces.
Crossblooded still alters or replaces how the bonus feats actually work. I enjoy the idea of more damage, but I don't see this working. blood havoc is not replacing the bloodline feat feature, you are just choosing blood havoc at 7 in place of that specific feat choice.
also Bloodline Mutations are not archetypes and their is no rule like this in place for them, after re-reading it, it could be possible to take it at level 1 even with crossblooded. i just had not thought of this until you mentioned the stuff about replacing/altering feats
vhok wrote: Ezzard wrote: Theaitetos wrote: Java Man wrote: Correct, you cannot take a mutation in place of a power thwt was altered by an archetype. But you can take a mutation instead of one of the bloodline bonus feats.
Quote: Bloodline Mutations:
Alternatively, a bloodrager or sorcerer can select a bloodline mutation in place of a bloodline bonus feat, provided her class level is at least equal to the level of the bloodline ability the mutation normally replaces.
Crossblooded still alters or replaces how the bonus feats actually work. I enjoy the idea of more damage, but I don't see this working. blood havoc is not replacing the bloodline feat feature, you are just choosing blood havoc at 7 in place of that specific feat choice.
also Bloodline Mutations are not archetypes and their is no rule like this in place for them, after re-reading it, it could be possible to take it at level 1 even with crossblooded. i just had not thought of this until you mentioned the stuff about replacing/altering feats The concern I have is that Crossblooded alters how you select a bonus feat already. Thus, in my view, making it null and void. However I would very much like to be wrong here. So later today I will be making a separate post to perhaps catch a wider audience.
hmmm... you might want to consult some build guides circa 2012 or newer ones if out there.
The rule about alternate class abilities stacking is not specific to just archetypes. The FAQ about this was about an archetype and a not-archetype. The cross-blooded cannot choose to alter their 1st bloodline power to gain blood havoc. But at least they still have the option to pick it up at level 7.
You should probably read this thread:
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pglb?WildbloodedCrossblooded
Melkiador wrote: The rule about alternate class abilities stacking is not specific to just archetypes. The FAQ about this was about an archetype and a not-archetype. The cross-blooded cannot choose to alter their 1st bloodline power to gain blood havoc. But at least they still have the option to pick it up at level 7.
You should probably read this thread:
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pglb?WildbloodedCrossblooded
i'm going to assume you gave the incorrect link since that thread is talking about combining multiple archetypes.(wildblood are archetype)
perhaps - FAQ on Crossblodded and Wildblooded circa 2013. (took some hunting but leads to the 'old' FAQs)
and - Bloodline Mutations thread 2016 {from Magic Tactics Toolbox supplement, thus as non-Core no FAQ} which leads to the Contributor A.Augunas post saying it was intended as Sorcerer class only.
Interestingly, AoN shows a Org Play acceptable icon on Mutations and the Org Play Cmpgn Clarifications does have an entry for Magic Tactics Toolbox but Mutations is not listed.
Azothath wrote: perhaps - FAQ on Crossblodded and Wildblooded circa 2013. (took some hunting but leads to the 'old' FAQs)
and - Bloodline Mutations thread 2016 {from Magic Tactics Toolbox supplement, thus as non-Core no FAQ} which leads to the Contributor A.Augunas post saying it was intended as Sorcerer class only.
Interestingly, AoN shows a Org Play acceptable icon on Mutations and the Org Play Cmpgn Clarifications does have an entry for Magic Tactics Toolbox but Mutations is not listed.
crossblooded and wildblooded are both archetypes. i don't see any rule for mutations being archetypes
The archetype FAQ has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. That you can't replace a bloodline power altered by an archetype with a mutation doesn't come from any archetype rules, but from the bloodline mutations rules:
"a bloodrager or sorcerer cannot swap a bloodline power that she has altered or replaced with an archetype for a bloodline mutation." MaTT pg. 10
The passage about replacing bonus feats comes right afterwards, but makes no mention of archetypes. Therefore, a Wildblooded or Crossblooded Sorc/BRager can replace bloodline feats with mutations.
my post on existing FAQ and Org Play decisions just shows what has or has not been clarified/modified publicly AND gives those rules for people to look up if they desire to do so based on the two topics in the thread.
I think in this case it is interesting on what has been reviewed and not been clarified as that would give it a 'pass'.
I'm dispassionate on the topic. Wizards make more effective characters in the long run.
so i was right the first time, and the other guy simply didn't bother reading bloodline mutations >_<
vhok wrote: so i was right the first time, and the other guy simply didn't bother reading bloodline mutations >_< Yes. It's not even ambiguous or anything, the rules are crystal clear that a wildblooded or corssblooded Sorc/BR can select a Bloodline Mutation in place of a bloodline feat. It's not an uncommon thing that people over-generalize rule sections. If I had a gold piece for every time I saw someone claim that a Monk's US counted as manufactured and/or natural weapons (omitting the "for spells and effects" part)...
@Azothath: I wasn't replying just to you (which is why I didn't quote your post), bur rather commenting on the topic of archetype rules and the respective FAQ.
To be 100% clear, the FAQ clarifies that the Crossblooded archetype does count as altering bloodline powers, and thus falls under the "a bloodrager or sorcerer cannot swap a bloodline power that she has altered or replaced with an archetype for a bloodline mutation" limitation in the Bloodline Mutation rules. However, the alternate option of replacing a bloodline feat with a mutation is not subject to that limitation. That Crossblooded alters the bloodlien feats just as much as bloodline powers is irrelevant.
Derklord wrote: vhok wrote: so i was right the first time, and the other guy simply didn't bother reading bloodline mutations >_< Yes. It's not even ambiguous or anything, the rules are crystal clear that a wildblooded or corssblooded Sorc/BR can select a Bloodline Mutation in place of a bloodline feat. It's not an uncommon thing that people over-generalize rule sections. If I had a gold piece for every time I saw someone claim that a Monk's US counted as manufactured and/or natural weapons (omitting the "for spells and effects" part)...
@Azothath: I wasn't replying just to you (which is why I didn't quote your post), bur rather commenting on the topic of archetype rules and the respective FAQ.
To be 100% clear, the FAQ clarifies that the Crossblooded archetype does count as altering bloodline powers, and thus falls under the "a bloodrager or sorcerer cannot swap a bloodline power that she has altered or replaced with an archetype for a bloodline mutation" limitation in the Bloodline Mutation rules. However, the alternate option of replacing a bloodline feat with a mutation is not subject to that limitation. That Crossblooded alters the bloodlien feats just as much as bloodline powers is irrelevant. "That Crossblooded alters the bloodline feats just as much as bloodline powers is irrelevant."
That makes no sense. It alters a feature of the class, ergo it can't be traded in for a blood mutation as it's an altered feature. At least that's what you've just explained, yet at the same time you find it irrelevant?
Ezzard wrote: Derklord wrote: vhok wrote: so i was right the first time, and the other guy simply didn't bother reading bloodline mutations >_< Yes. It's not even ambiguous or anything, the rules are crystal clear that a wildblooded or corssblooded Sorc/BR can select a Bloodline Mutation in place of a bloodline feat. It's not an uncommon thing that people over-generalize rule sections. If I had a gold piece for every time I saw someone claim that a Monk's US counted as manufactured and/or natural weapons (omitting the "for spells and effects" part)...
@Azothath: I wasn't replying just to you (which is why I didn't quote your post), bur rather commenting on the topic of archetype rules and the respective FAQ.
To be 100% clear, the FAQ clarifies that the Crossblooded archetype does count as altering bloodline powers, and thus falls under the "a bloodrager or sorcerer cannot swap a bloodline power that she has altered or replaced with an archetype for a bloodline mutation" limitation in the Bloodline Mutation rules. However, the alternate option of replacing a bloodline feat with a mutation is not subject to that limitation. That Crossblooded alters the bloodlien feats just as much as bloodline powers is irrelevant. "That Crossblooded alters the bloodline feats just as much as bloodline powers is irrelevant."
That makes no sense. It alters a feature of the class, ergo it can't be traded in for a blood mutation as it's an altered feature. At least that's what you've just explained, yet at the same time you find it irrelevant?
it doesn't work for bloodline powers because it actually calls out it doesn't work in the bloodline mutation description. but it says you can take it in place of feats without mentioning you can't take it if the archetype changes feats. just go actually read the ability
Anyway. I've made a thread just for this topic. Thank you for the effort you've put into this tangent that came up but I'd rather any further discussion take place on the new thread. That way it's easier to look up the topic in the future. Instead of sharing a link that doesn't address the topic until part way through. Not to mention the awful title that doesn't hint at it at all.
Crossblooded Sorcerer + Blood Havoc is the name of the new thread.
Ezzard wrote: It alters a feature of the class, ergo it can't be traded in for a blood mutation as it's an altered feature. There are no rules that say that - the dependent clause (the "ergo" part) of your sentence is wrong. The alteration is irrelevant because you can trade an altered bloodline feat for a mutation.
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