|
I like how its turning out so far, but i would like some extra help, and i am willing to consider just using an investigator instead
Grenadier(Alchemic Knight)
2.Fire Brand
4.Spontaneous Healing
6.Explosive Bomb
8.Healing Touch
10.Syringe Stirge
12.Greater Mutagen
1.Iron Will
3.Power Attack
5.
7.
9.
11.
13.
Weapon of Choice(Greatsword)
A black earth knight, I like it.
Furious Focus helps your accuracy by removing the Power Attack penalty on the first attack. Never a bad choice if you like hitting what you attack.
Point Blank Shot isn't bad if you actually want to throw your Bombs, or have a bow as back up. Being able to deal with flying enemies is helpful.
Combat Reflexes because not being able to act in the surprise round is for amatuers.
Did you grab the Armor Expert trait so you can wear a Mithral Breastplate? If no, then Additional Traits is the feat for you.
|
|
A black earth knight, I like it.
Furious Focus helps your accuracy by removing the Power Attack penalty on the first attack. Never a bad choice if you like hitting what you attack.
Point Blank Shot isn't bad if you actually want to throw your Bombs, or have a bow as back up. Being able to deal with flying enemies is helpful.
Combat Reflexes because not being able to act in the surprise round is for amatuers.
Did you grab the Armor Expert trait so you can wear a Mithral Breastplate? If no, then Additional Traits is the feat for you.
I actually wondered if point blank shot works when you're fireing your bomb in a cone?
Honestly, I totally forgot that Explosive Bomb extends the range of Directed Blast... I figured you would want something to help with enemies more than 20' away... but an Explosive Directed Blast has the same range as throwing Bombs/Point Blank Shot. So my advice for PBS was mistaken from the start.
|
|
Honestly, I totally forgot that Explosive Bomb extends the range of Directed Blast... I figured you would want something to help with enemies more than 20' away... but an Explosive Directed Blast has the same range as throwing Bombs/Point Blank Shot. So my advice for PBS was mistaken from the start.
Yeah no just a nice big Cone AOE with a wave of my hand
Combat Reflexes is my go-to level 1 feat... pretty much regardless of the rest of the build.
Greatswords and Furious Focus are literally a divine matchup. They are meant to go together. Praise be to Gorum.
Additional Traits is a wonderful feat, and should probably appear in way more builds than I see it posted in on average. And even without proficiency, wearing Mithral Breastplate without penalty is just a trait away. You can even wait to take Additional Traits/Armor Expert until you can actually afford a Mithral Breastplate.
Deific Obedience at level 13, so you get the first boon. The rest of the boons will show up as you level, which is rare for a single feat. Some boons can be quite powerful, too. I just really like Deific Obedience for flavor, though. Any time I don't know what to put in a late level feat slot, I look to Deific Obedience (even if I have to find a decent deity for a build that otherwise didn't involve one).
So do you want a bunch of feats stacking to make vital strike bearable? It's doable with a greatsword, Gorum has skillz.
Or you do want some fancy feats? Brilliant planner can show off your brains. Artful dodge to switch Dex prereqs to Int and redirect attack to set your enemies against each other looks really good even if sometimes hard to arrange.
Alternately there's obviously a lot more discoveries you could use. Taking extra discovery a bunch of times couldn't hurt.
|
|
So do you want a bunch of feats stacking to make vital strike bearable? It's doable with a greatsword, Gorum has skillz.
Or you do want some fancy feats? Brilliant planner can show off your brains. Artful dodge to switch Dex prereqs to Int and redirect attack to set your enemies against each other looks really good even if sometimes hard to arrange.
Alternately there's obviously a lot more discoveries you could use. Taking extra discovery a bunch of times couldn't hurt.
Well i was thinking of something that would put me on the same level as a paladin or a bloodrager in terms of just how much punishment i can take.
Well i was thinking of something that would put me on the same level as a paladin or a bloodrager in terms of just how much punishment i can take.
The spontaneous healing discovery and the ablative barrier extract have you well on the way there. You already have that discovery and can get that extract of course.
There's more you can do with extra discovery; bone-spike mutagen is +2 AC (& armor spikes) for a feat. The quillbreaker defence feat can use those armor spikes. Preserve organs and mummification are creepy but effective. Enhance potion or extend potion are useful assuming that you'll be using alchemical allocation for a buff like heroism, any time that ~doubling the duration of such a buff matters. Wings for non-magical flight doesn't increase your durability but is useful and I just noticed you don't have it.
|
|
So, why Grenadier?
I consider the key Discovery of the Grenadier Alchemist to be Explosive Missile, which lets you load an Alchemal Bomb into just about any piece of Ammunition and shoot it as a Standard Action. The Archetype Class Ability lets you do that with stuff like Alchemist Fire and Acid as a Move Action, so you can use both on each arrow, bolt, or bullet. Something to bear in mind with this. Feats like Vital Strike and Deadly Aim don't work with Bombs, but they do work with your Arrows, Bolts and Bullets, so they come back into play for your Alchemist.
For most types of Alchemist, Fast Bombs is really good. That lets you nova and throw lots of bombs at once, doing crazy damage.
The form of melee I consider Alchemists to be best at is Grappling. The Tentacle grants a +4 on Grapple Checks, and the King Crab Tumor Familiar gives you a +2.
Of course Mutagens are great for Melee, but you only need 1 level in Alchemist to use them.
Why a Greatsword? They are lovely, but a Split Blade Sword also does 2d6 Slashing, and is a 1-handed weapon, allowing you to use a Shield. The Earthbreaker does 2d6, but it does Bludgeoning Damage, and I think more creatures have DR/Bludgeoning than DR/Slashing. Also, an Alchemal Silver Earthbreaker does more damage than an Alchemal Silver Greatsword. The Butchering Axe does more Damage. Is there a special reason for using that Greatsword?
I think if you are going for a big, 2-handed weapon, the key feats are Great Cleave for multiple opponents and Vital Strike Feats for single opponents. And if you can sort out some way to get Attacks of Opportunity, that would be really good.
If you take Vestigial Arm, you could use a Shield and wield your Greatsword.
Another thing I think would be a good idea that uses Alchemist would be Feral Mutagen. Alchemist would be just a dip of like 2 levels, and the rest of your levels would be in Unchained Barbarian. The Strength bonus from Rage Stacks with the Strength bonus from Mutagen. Feral Mutagen gives...
In order
1.IMO, if you want to make a powerful effective ranged alchemist, you would go gun chemist instead since due to the fact that they have guns, you're not completely helpless once you run out of bombs.2. I'm simply not interested in making another grappling build i've done those with unchained monk and bloodrager who imo do it much better.
3.As ive mentioned before I don't like multiclassing on 6th level casters, really dilutes things.
4.With the exception of the earth breaker every other weapon you mentioned is exotic, and grenadier only allows you go gain proficiency in a martial weapon of your choice.
5. With Grenadiers Directed Blast i can deal with lots of enemies in a wide 30 foot cone making cleave redundant
6. Feral mutagen for unchained barbarian would involve a lot of natural attacks right? I'd rather leave that to the feral champion.
and 7. Alchemists are not proficient with shields
Grenadier makes a fine alchemical knight. Now, in the name of versatility, I probably would start as Half-Orc for their specific weapons. Unlike a lot of races, they are straight up Proficient with Greataxes and Falchions. And treat that beautiful Orc Hornbow as a martial weapon, which you can grab as a Grenadier. Falchion is a fine alternative to the Greatsword, as well.
As a Half-Orc you can of course start with Endurance, Darkvision, and a +2 luck bonus to all your saves if you take the Fate's Favored trait. Endurance will help you sleep in your fancy Mithral Breastplate, too.
But you have Firebrand listed, which I believe is a Goblin thing.
|
I’m not familiar with the concept of an “Alchemic Knight”, can you give us some details on the theme and combat style you are going for? Or a reference if it is from a piece of pop culture I have not seen?
and 7. Alchemists are not proficient with shields
While true, proficiency is almost never an issue with shields. Darkwood or mithral removes the penalties associated with non-proficiency. Arcane spell failure and having enough free hands are definitely still issues for many builds, though.
On that note you can also “buy” your way into heavy armor using just money and your traits. A +1 mithral full plate of comfort is not cheap (16,500 gp) but in combination with the armor expert and Sargavan guard traits your armor check penalty is reduced to 0. You would still be slowed, but no penalties on attack rolls.
|
|
Grenadier makes a fine alchemical knight. Now, in the name of versatility, I probably would start as Half-Orc for their specific weapons. Unlike a lot of races, they are straight up Proficient with Greataxes and Falchions. And treat that beautiful Orc Hornbow as a martial weapon, which you can grab as a Grenadier. Falchion is a fine alternative to the Greatsword, as well.
As a Half-Orc you can of course start with Endurance, Darkvision, and a +2 luck bonus to all your saves if you take the Fate's Favored trait. Endurance will help you sleep in your fancy Mithral Breastplate, too.
But you have Firebrand listed, which I believe is a Goblin thing.
I checked archives, it isnt.
In that case:
Half-Orc
... Sacred Tattooes
... Shaman's Apprentice
Traits
... Armor Expert
... Fate's Favored
Grenadier(Alchemic Knight)
Martial Weapon Proficiency
... Orc HornBow
2.Fire Brand
4.Spontaneous Healing
6.Explosive Bomb
8.Healing Touch
10.Syringe Stirge
12.Greater Mutagen
1.Endurance (from race)
1.Combat Reflexes
3.Power Attack
5.Point Blank Shot
7.Iron Will
9.Furious Focus
11.Extra Discovery
... Explosive Missile
13.Deific Obedience
Weapon of Choice(Falchion)
Iron Will can be pushed back a little bit because of your +2 luck bonus to saves. The Falchion has a little lower base damage, but higher critical threat range... so meh. Nothing really changes from your original concept, expect you have the ability to whip out a 2D6 composite bow AND attach your bombs to the arrows. Should be useful fighting pesky Flyby-Attack dragons...
|
|
I checked archives, it isnt.Grenadier makes a fine alchemical knight. Now, in the name of versatility, I probably would start as Half-Orc for their specific weapons. Unlike a lot of races, they are straight up Proficient with Greataxes and Falchions. And treat that beautiful Orc Hornbow as a martial weapon, which you can grab as a Grenadier. Falchion is a fine alternative to the Greatsword, as well.
As a Half-Orc you can of course start with Endurance, Darkvision, and a +2 luck bonus to all your saves if you take the Fate's Favored trait. Endurance will help you sleep in your fancy Mithral Breastplate, too.
But you have Firebrand listed, which I believe is a Goblin thing.
Unfortunately, it is.
It's from the Advanced Race Guide, specifically page 116 in the goblin section.
The following alchemist discoveries can be taken only by goblins.
Even dropping Firebrand from the build isn't too bad. Just replace it with Infusion, or work in Explosive Missile earlier, or Wings.
Or Spell Knowledge and take Arcane Strike for something relatively similar.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Scott, for whatever reason I cannot seem to quote what I am talking about. Anyways, the point of Combat Reflexes to to be able to act, particularly make AoO, in the surprise round (and whilst flat-footed)... it has nothing to do with the multitude of shenanigans involving stringing together as many AoO your GM allows before pulling their hair out ans rage-flipping the table before jumping out the nearest window, stripping off their clothes as they run off into the sunset.
|
|
I recommend against Syringe Stirge. It does look sexy, but all it really does is deliver a Bomb attack against a single person with no Splash Radius.
As a Grenadier, you already get Precise Bombs and Directed Blast. You already have great capacity to selectively shape your Bomb blasts to keep the hot side hot and the cool side cool.
I recommend against Healing Touch. As an Alchemist, you already gain Cure Light Wounds as an Extract, and presumably as a melee fireblaster, you will be too busy inflicting wounds to bother with healing them. If you really want the capacity to be the party medic, just have the party all chip in and buy you a Wand of Cure Light Wounds: more healing power than Healing Touch and still no Attacks of Opportunity.
You realize healing touch increases the times i can use spontaneous healing right?