Hi there,
I am wondering if I could cast Longarm on myself after casting Monstrous Physique?
The first one is just a plain Transmutation spell, whilst the second has the Transmutation [Polymorph] subtitle. I believe that means they can be used at the same time right? Same as Stone Fist for instance. Only Polymorph spells cancel each other out?
Also, how much would a magic item of Longarm cost? Maybe like continuous Bracers of Longarm. I come to 2000gp if I use this calculation: 1 (spell level) x 1 (caster level) x 2000 (use-activated / continuous item).
To say 'that seems a bit low for what it does' is the understatement of the century. Any idea how this could be priced?
Kind regards,
Bram
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As written they should work together. But don't be surprised if you come across a GM who declares Longarm to be a size increase.
Regarding the magic item pricing:
The first thing to remember is pricing custom magic items are always an art rather than a straight plug-and-chug formula. At least if you want to avoid game-breakingly overpowered items. If you don't, that's cool too.
Second:
If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.
So the price should at least be doubled because Longarm is 1 minute per level. That makes it, using the conventional formula, 4,000 gp. Which still feels to me to be a smidge low (see above comment about art-not-formula).
On the other hand, it's not like it's a high-resource spell. A wand of longarm with 50 charges only costs 750 gp. So for 750 gp and a single standard action, you'll have longarm for 50 straight combats (assuming your combats don't run more than 10 rounds--a fair average assumption).
So maybe 4,000 gp is not terrible. I mean, there's plenty of other ways to get an additional 5-feet of reach (the Lunge feat comes to mind, as does wielding a longspear, and if memory serves there's some psychic mutations that'll do that for you too). So it's not like the combat simulator depends on characters being mostly limited to only 5 feet.
I dunno. I'd probably make it 8,000 gp. But I don't have a good reason for that beyond "it feels adequate". (In truth, I'd probably not allow it. As a GM I don't get a lot of fun out of players monkeying around with custom items).
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To say 'that seems a bit low for what it does' is the understatement of the century. Any idea how this could be priced?
The rule (printed in Ultimate Campaign) is that the first step is always to look if an item with a similar power exists and price it accordingly.
It exist Longarm Bracers.
7,200 gp to be able to extend your arms as a swift action for one round, 3 times a day. And it even has a penalty if you use weapons.
Scaling from that item, let's say that you need the ability to work 21 times a day to be able to use it every time you want. 7,200*7= 50,400 gp.
Maybe another 15,000 gp if you want to remove the -4 to hit (half of a +4 weapon).
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Yes, the two spell effects can work together.
I can see the advantage but if the target is the caster himself, I'd ask WHY? HTH Combat isn't a caster's thing and will only allow enemies to physically attack their low hit point total...
Bloodrager
Isn't there some kind of swashbuckler-scarf that gives you an extra 5ft of reach with some restrictions that's fairly cheap? I feel like that would be a better direction to go in; apply similar restrictions and knock that price down to a reasonable level.
Isn't there some kind of swashbuckler-scarf that gives you an extra 5ft of reach with some restrictions that's fairly cheap? I feel like that would be a better direction to go in; apply similar restrictions and knock that price down to a reasonable level.
Yup. Depends how often you want to use it though (unless you're a Swashbuckler).
Aura faint enchantment; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 2,500 gp; Weight —
Description: These garish tokens usually take the form of a colorful clothing accessories. So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand, she can spend 1 panache point to gain the use of a specific ability associated with the token. Once per day, the bearer can use the token to gain the full benefit of the token without spending panache. Non-swashbucklers can use the tokens, but unless they have another way of gaining panache, they can use the ability only once per day. A character can benefit from only one token at a time; holding a second token provides no additional benefit. There are four types of tokens, each offering a different benefit.Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute.
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Thanks for the elaborate answers everyone. It seems like an item is right out because by the time I could afford it I will have access to spells that give me reach and lots of other goodies.
I am talking about making a CN Cleric of Baphomet, who grants his followers all of the Monstrous Physique spells.
I guess potions will be the way during the early levels.
Also, I found this shape which will give me 20 ft reach at level 5 and allows me to stick to sword and board. I only really need the reach for AoO anyway as my Standard Actions will be taken up by casting.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/roku rokubi
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Also, I found this shape which will give me 20 ft reach at level 5 and allows me to stick to sword and board. I only really need the reach for AoO anyway as my Standard Actions will be taken up by casting.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/roku rokubi
Rokurokubi. It has 20' reach only with its bite.
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Also, I found this shape which will give me 20 ft reach at level 5 and allows me to stick to sword and board. I only really need the reach for AoO anyway as my Standard Actions will be taken up by casting.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/roku rokubi
And elongate neck isn't an ability granted by monstrous physique
If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent. If the form you assume has the aquatic subtype, you gain the aquatic and amphibious subtypes
And elongate neck isn't an ability granted by monstrous physiqueAlso, I found this shape which will give me 20 ft reach at level 5 and allows me to stick to sword and board. I only really need the reach for AoO anyway as my Standard Actions will be taken up by casting.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/roku rokubi
Wouod it be covered by the general Polymorph rules?
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In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.
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I don't know if Elongated Neck is separate or just a part of the bite attack. What do people think? (Would you normally get reach if you choose a form with a reach attack?)
You don’t get the ability, but since the reach is in the stat block too it doesn’t matter. That ability just amounts to fluff. I guess at the most extreme you can say that the neck is stuck at long and you can’t pull it in. But the reach of 20 ft with bite is always there.
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (20 ft. with bite)
You don’t get the ability, but since the reach is in the stat block too it doesn’t matter.
That's also my viewpoint. There isn't anything explicit on non-standard natural attacks, but the best I can figure out is this: You get what the stat block says, and nothing more. If any information is missing, you can't use the attack(s) in question.
In the case of the Rokurokubi, there is no missing information, the Elongate Neck ability is completely redundant. For comparison, dragons also have increased reach with their bite, with no ability explaining that.
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PECIAL ABILITIES
Elongate Neck (Ex)A rokurokubi can stretch her neck from a normal human length up to 20 feet, giving her reach with her bite attack and threatening all squares within that range.
It a special ability. Name Violation is right, you need a spell that gives you that.
If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability:
If its statblock had only Reach 5 ft. (20 ft. with bite), without explaining it, Monstrous physique would give it, as it is part of the attack. But the statblock explains that it is an Ex special ability, so you need a spell that gives it.
Hmmm... I don't know where I land on this one. I think I'd give it to them since it's in the stat-block under Offense, but as Melkiador suggested they wouldn't be able to pull their head in.
__________
Offense
__________
Speed 30 ft.
Melee bite +24 (2d6+4/19–20 plus rokurokubi’s curse), 2 claws +23 (1d6+4)
Space 5 ft., Reach 5 ft. (20 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks elongate neck, rokurokubi’s curse
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 12th; concentration +17)
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__________Special Abilities
__________
Elongate Neck (Ex) A rokurokubi can stretch her neck from a normal human length up to 20 feet, giving her reach with her bite attack and threatening all squares within that range.
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Helpful and relevant post titled How Can I Increase My Reach in Pathfinder. It seems like that's really what the OP is interested in.
Helpful and relevant post titled How Can I Increase My Reach in Pathfinder. It seems like that's really what the OP is interested in.
One thing mentioned in that link is the MONKEY LUNGE feat - This is the single worst feat in Pathfinder.
Aside from that there's some good stuff there =)
Wow, that went way further than I thought. If I can surmise: if an attack is mentioned both in the stat block AND as a special ability, don't assume anything and speak with your GM.
So for instance the Euryale has its six bite attacks mixed up in an Ex ability. This would mean you don't automatically get those attacks using MP1.
Right?
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Wow, that went way further than I thought. If I can surmise: if an attack is mentioned both in the stat block AND as a special ability, don't assume anything and speak with your GM.
So for instance the Euryale has its six bite attacks mixed up in an Ex ability. This would mean you don't automatically get those attacks using MP1.
Right?
Yes, probably it is an ability that you couldn't get, as it is "Snake Independence" and the snakes are controlled by 6 independent minds.
Maybe your GM could allow you to make 6 snake bite attacks when you are using a full attack, but you don't get the ability to have the attack by themselves.
There is a lot of space for interpretations from your GM in all this stuff.
The stat block is the stat block. You get the 6 bite attacks. What you don’t get is the ability to make those bite attacks while taking other actions.
Talking a wonky thing over with your GM is always a good idea, but polymorph gives you a creature’s natural attacks and those are recorded as being the creature’s natural attacks. In both of these cases, the extra ability merely tweaks the way those natural attacks work or interact.
Yes, the two spell effects can work together.
I can see the advantage but if the target is the caster himself, I'd ask WHY? HTH Combat isn't a caster's thing and will only allow enemies to physically attack their low hit point total... It is good for touch attacks, particularly on your allies. Spectral Hand is probably better for adding range to touch attack enemies.
A specialized shapeshifting (brown fur) transmuter might use this for better reach.
Magus would be the ones most likely to want these effects.
Wow, that went way further than I thought. If I can surmise: if an attack is mentioned both in the stat block AND as a special ability, don't assume anything and speak with your GM.
Yes, that's undoubtedly the best course of action.
Polymorphing is notoriously light on definite rules, and in some cases you have to actually ignore the written rules to not break the game.
polymorph gives you a creature’s natural attacks and those are recorded as being the creature’s natural attacks. In both of these cases, the extra ability merely tweaks the way those natural attacks work or interact.
That's not always the case, though. In the case of the euryale, the snake bites are clearly bites, so from the universal monster rules, we have classification (primary) and damage type (B/S/P). The respective ability only changes how the crature uses the attacks, and doesn't define any characteristics of the attack itself.
The Green Man, on the other hand, has 6 "vines" that are not included in the universal monster rules, and the necessary information is in the respetive (Ex) ability that one doesn't get by polymorphing.Having something, and being able to sue it, are two different things. A Wizard with Int 9 has spells, but can't cast them. A Wizard polymorphing into a Green Man having vines but not being able to attack with them sounds not unlike.
Somethign to note is that stat blocks sometimes include things that aren't granted by polymorphing, e.g. the effects of feats like Improved Critical. A Deathsnatcher's 19-20 crit range with the claws is not part of the natural attack, and thus not granted by Monstrous Physique. One might make a case that the Rokurokubi's reach is basically the same thing. It gets weird because the character does get that long neck (as that's part of the form you take), just not the respective (Ex) ability, and getting a Sewer Troll's long arms is all it takes to get the reach with its claws.