Scared Weapon + Shield spikes or Bashing


Rules Questions

The Concordance

(1) Scared Weapon(Warpriest 1) + light wooden sheild with shield spikes, the damage will be
1d3(light shield)——1d6(Scared Weapon)——1d8(sheild spikes) or
1d3(light shield)——1d4(sheild spikes)——1d6(Scared Weapon)?

(2)Scared Weapon(Warpriest 1) + Bashing(Armor special ability),the damage will be
1d3(light shield)——1d6(Scared Weapon)——2d6(sheild spikes) or
1d3(light shield)——1d6(sheild spikes)——1d6(Scared Weapon)?


as far as i can tell sacred weapon is like a patch. you ether use it or the weapon normal damage. whichever is higher (or you want. i think you can choose to pick the lower one).

only thing that does matter for it is the warpriest level and the WARPRIEST'S actual size (not to be confused with weapon size which doesn't matter here!). that mean a small, medium and large warpriests using the same weapon -say a medium one handed weapon. large and small taking size penalties for attack, would deal different damage each (if using the sacred weapon damage and not the normal weapon damage)

so in the questions above:
1: can pick from 1d4 (spikes) and 1d6 (sacred weapon)
2: can pick from 1d6 (bashing) and 1d6 (sacred weapon)


Yes, what the spikes do is change the damage to Piercing from Bludgeoning while fixing the damage.

If you really want to exploit Sacred Damage, you should pic weapons with lots of weird traits like Tripping, Disarming, Threat Range of 18-20, Reach, etc that also do a variety of Damage: Slashing, Piercing, Bludgeoning. A lot of those tricky weapons don't do a lot of Damage, but they will do okay damage when they do Sacred Weapon Damage.


zza ni wrote:
as far as i can tell sacred weapon is like a patch. you ether use it or the weapon normal damage.

Correct. Upon making the attack (before the attack roll is made), you can chose weather to use the normal base damage for the weapon, or the sacred weapon damage. The former follows the normal calculation (including virtual size increases), while the latter is solely dependent on character size and Warpriest level. When using the sacred weapon damage, weapon size and virtual size increases are ignored.


Julien Dien wrote:

(1) Scared Weapon(Warpriest 1) + light wooden sheild with shield spikes, the damage will be

1d3(light shield)——1d6(Scared Weapon)——1d8(sheild spikes) or
1d3(light shield)——1d4(sheild spikes)——1d6(Scared Weapon)?

(2)Scared Weapon(Warpriest 1) + Bashing(Armor special ability),the damage will be
1d3(light shield)——1d6(Scared Weapon)——2d6(sheild spikes) or
1d3(light shield)——1d6(sheild spikes)——1d6(Scared Weapon)?

Pretty sure it's been discussed before, but the size of the weapon doesn't matter, so shield spikes have no effect on it other than if you want to add weapon enchantments to the shield.

If you don't have shield master, throwing a +1 enhancement on the spikes means you can use your ability to add elemental, holy, etc damage to it (depending on your warpriest level) without sacrificing one of those pluses to get the weapon magical.

Neither Bashing nor Spikes increase the sacred weapon damage - you take the better of the two.

The Concordance

Thank you.

So the effect of "deals ...as if it were a weapon of X size categories larger", such as Lead Blade spell, Bashing, shield spikes, can not be increase the damage roll of Sacred Weapon.

While the effect of "changes the creature's size category to the next larger one",such as Enlarge Person, can increase the damage roll of Sacred Weapon.


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Julien Dien wrote:

Thank you.

So the effect of "deals ...as if it were a weapon of X size categories larger", such as Lead Blade spell, Bashing, shield spikes, can not be increase the damage roll of Sacred Weapon.

While the effect of "changes the creature's size category to the next larger one",such as Enlarge Person, can increase the damage roll of Sacred Weapon.

Exactly!

Which is why enlarge person is such a good spell for a warpriest. Especially a Dwarven one, which gets to be considered large while only being about 7 feet tall.

The Concordance

Hi, Skrayper, you said it disscussed before. Do you have the link to the previous discussion ?


Julien Dien wrote:
Hi, Skrayper, you said it disscussed before. Do you have the link to the previous discussion ?

Sorry, it was discussed on Reddit, not here.

Here's the thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/4va29t/warpriest_large_wea pons_and_sacred_weapon/


You can find plenty of threads on the topic on these boards, too. Like this one, this one, and this one.

Honestly though, the case is clear. The ability says "Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table 1–14 (...)"
Medium Warpriest, not medium weapon. A medium Warpriest wielding a large weapon is still a medium Warpriest, and therefore uses the listed damage.

Of course, if the weapon size is irrelevant, virtual size increases to the weapon can't be relevant, either.


Note that this means that a warpriest under the effect of enlarge person while shooting a bow still deals sacred weapon damage as a large warpriest instead of the usual medium size damage.

Aka, this doesn't apply

Quote:
Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage.


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willuwontu wrote:

Note that this means that a warpriest under the effect of enlarge person while shooting a bow still deals sacred weapon damage as a large warpriest instead of the usual medium size damage.

Aka, this doesn't apply

Quote:
Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage.

Ah, clever. Even though your arrows do shrink back down to Size Medium if you are an Enlarged to Size Large Warpriest, your Arrows still inflict Sacred Weapon Damage as if you were a Size Large Warpriest with a Size Large Bow.

It's still not my instinct to go with Warpriest as an Archer. If I wanted an Archer character, I'd be a Half Orc with an Orc Hornbow, Endurance, Sacred Tatoos, and Fate's Favored. I'd start out as a Level 1 Fighter with Precise Shot, then I'd take a level in Ranger so I could use a Wand of Gravity Bow and Freebooter's Bane, then, assuming the number-crunching worked out, I'd work my way up to taking a level in Living Monolith so I could Enlarge as a Swift Action. I'd get around the projectile-weapons-instantly-returning-to-normal-size thing by carrying around a quiver of Size Large Arrows, dropping them as a Free Action, Enlarging as a Swift Action, then picking them up again as a Move Action. Size Medium Orc Hornbows incflict 2d6 Damage, so those 2 Size Increases, Gravity Bow and Enlarge Person, make the Damage 4d6. It would take a Warpriest Archer quite some time to catch up with that.

If I wanted to be a magic archer, I might become an Alchemist, Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight, and/or Magus, and I would take 2 or more levels in Living Monolith instead of 1, taking an Ib Stone instead of a Ka Stone. Ib Stones make it so your your Caster Level increases with your Living Monolith Level they way they do with other Prestige Classes such as Eldritch Knight and Mystic Theurge, and Living Monoliths have other lovely abilities such as DR/-, automatic Stabilizing, and immunity to Crits.

If I were an Alchemist, though, I probably would want to use a gun instead of a bow, since the bulwark of the Alchemist would be Explosive Missile, and perhaps Alchemal Weapon (Grenadier Archetype). These would limit the rate of fire to 1 Standard Action Attack/round in any event, so I'd want to go with the Ranged Touch Attacks provided by muskets and Flintlock pistols.

Dark Archive

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
willuwontu wrote:

Note that this means that a warpriest under the effect of enlarge person while shooting a bow still deals sacred weapon damage as a large warpriest instead of the usual medium size damage.

Aka, this doesn't apply

Quote:
Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage.

Ah, clever. Even though your arrows do shrink back down to Size Medium if you are an Enlarged to Size Large Warpriest, your Arrows still inflict Sacred Weapon Damage as if you were a Size Large Warpriest with a Size Large Bow.

It's still not my instinct to go with Warpriest as an Archer. If I wanted an Archer character, I'd be a Half Orc with an Orc Hornbow, Endurance, Sacred Tatoos, and Fate's Favored. I'd start out as a Level 1 Fighter with Precise Shot, then I'd take a level in Ranger so I could use a Wand of Gravity Bow and Freebooter's Bane, then, assuming the number-crunching worked out, I'd work my way up to taking a level in Living Monolith so I could Enlarge as a Swift Action. I'd get around the projectile-weapons-instantly-returning-to-normal-size thing by carrying around a quiver of Size Large Arrows, dropping them as a Free Action, Enlarging as a Swift Action, then picking them up again as a Move Action. Size Medium Orc Hornbows incflict 2d6 Damage, so those 2 Size Increases, Gravity Bow and Enlarge Person, make the Damage 4d6. It would take a Warpriest Archer quite some time to catch up with that.

If I wanted to be a magic archer, I might become an Alchemist, Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight, and/or Magus, and I would take 2 or more levels in Living Monolith instead of 1, taking an Ib Stone instead of a Ka Stone. Ib Stones make it so your your Caster Level increases with your Living Monolith Level they way they do with other Prestige Classes such as...

its not even necessary to try and abuse the size things on an archer warpriest.

use the arsenal chaplain archetype for weapon training.
+1 adaptive orc horn bow, rapid/many shot, point blank master, divine favor, and the spell channel focus make you enough of a combat beast that you already annihilate anything by round 2-3


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Name Violation wrote:
its not even necessary to try and abuse the size things on an archer warpriest.

But I like to abuse size things!

I'm not saying Warpriest is not a viable or even good choice for an archer, just not my preference. It isn't even in light of your explanation.

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