If I use Evil Eye and the target fails his save, he's frightened 1. When his turn ends, he can't reduce this condition since Evil Eye still lasts.
On my next turn, I don't sustain the spell, causing it to end at the end of my turn. Evil Eye doesn't say the frightened condition ends when the spell ends. So the target remains frightened until he reduces the condition automatically at the end of his turn, basically making him frightened for two of his turns.
Is this correct or am I missing something?
This is a long discussion with no clear answer. We already got it about Dirge of Doom on this forum.
The thing is, Frightened is a special condition as it has a duration by itself. As such, it's quite unclear to know, effect per effect, spell per spell, when Frightened is removed when the effect that apply it is over and when it lasts after the duration ends.
I hope one day the devs will address this case in a FAQ but I'm not much confident they will as it's rarely brought on the forum.
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The spell says it can't be reduced to under 1 while the spell is active (and you can see the target), so if the spell is no longer active (such as by not sustaining it) on their next turn Frightened will reduce as normal.
How this works in game:
1. You cast the spell, the target fails and becomes Frightened 1.
2. At the end of their turn the Frightened condition decreases, but since the spell is still active it can not go below a 1.
3. On your turn you fail to sustain the spell, and it ends when your turn ends.
4. At the end of their second turn the Frightened condition again decreases, and since the spell is not active anymore it decreases to 0, ending the condition.
So yea, you're correct there. Dirge of Doom has similar language, where if they end their turn within 30ft of the bard they can not lower their Frightened value below 1.
“Conditions are persistent. Whenever you’re affected by a condition, its effects last until the condition’s stated duration ends, the condition is removed, or terms dictated in the condition itself cause it to end.“
Can’t find any reason why the Frightened condition would end immediately upon choosing not to sustain the spell.
If you want, you look for Dirge of Doom duration and you have pages of endless debate to fuel your curiosity.
Don’t see the need since the RAW here seems so clear...If you want, you look for Dirge of Doom duration and you have pages of endless debate to fuel your curiosity.“Conditions are persistent. Whenever you’re affected by a condition, its effects last until the condition’s stated duration ends, the condition is removed, or terms dictated in the condition itself cause it to end.“
Can’t find any reason why the Frightened condition would end immediately upon choosing not to sustain the spell.
Yep, RAW is extremely clear: Both interpretation of the rules are RAW. The issue is choosing which one to follow.
Do you really think you will solve a hundreds of post discussion with one line?
Ok, here's the discussion.
Read it, get why I say there's no clear answer and then you can answer here. Obviously, we all have a point of view, but there's no clear answer on Frightened duration after the effect applying it ends (for whatever reason).
Ok, here's the discussion.
Read it, get why I say there's no clear answer and then you can answer here. Obviously, we all have a point of view, but there's no clear answer on Frightened duration after the effect applying it ends (for whatever reason).
there is a clear answer for general effects applying frightened.
Even in that thread, no one is saying anything different for any non-Composition effect. (like, if you cast Fear as an example)
Dirge is a Composition, and the Composition is the exception, nothing in the Hexes text says anything about terminating the effect.
19 minutes to read a 100 posts discussion, you are a beast, man!
19 minutes to read a 100 posts discussion, you are a beast, man!Ok, here's the discussion.
Read it, get why I say there's no clear answer and then you can answer here. Obviously, we all have a point of view, but there's no clear answer on Frightened duration after the effect applying it ends (for whatever reason).
there is a clear answer for general effects applying frightened.
Even in that thread, no one is saying anything different for any non-Composition effect. (like, if you cast Fear as an example)
Dirge is a Composition, and the Composition is the exception, nothing in the Hexes text says anything about terminating the effect.
i've participated in the thread, no reason to read it again. Also read my edit.
To put it simply, Compositions are the issue, not Frightened. Everything that isnt a composition has clear cut rules that no one (i know at least) refutes.
Considering that the discussion spoke about the Fear spell and other such effects, you either haven't read it or you forgot about it.
The issue had nothing to do with composition but with Dirge of Doom duration only.And noone care of the people you know. We speak about RAW.
The RAW is clear on conditions inflicted by effects.
The conditions last for their normal duration EXCEPT when stated otherwise.
Again, Shatter defense: NOTHING says that the frightened is dispeled when your turn begins.
That EXCEPT is the issue with Compositions/Dirge.
You literally take one very specific exception that is controversial, and say that it applies to any and all effects when those effects dont have the specific exception text.
It's like saying "because multitalented half-elves dont need to have stats for multiclass, no one needs to"
Really, read that thread yourself and see what's the...
I said I don't want to have that discussion again, because it took me a lot of time last time and because there's a whole discussion one can read to understand why there's no clear cut ruling on this question.
So, I'll answer the only thing I can: You're right. That's the end of the debate for me.
So, yeah, Evil Eye's frightened condition lasts for at least two rounds. It's a nice small thing for it.
Even in that thread, no one is saying anything different for any non-Composition effect. (like, if you cast Fear as an example)
There were people in those threads saying exactly that, arguing that the rules for spell durations trumped the general rules for conditions.
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Hmmm, I was thinking about this more, and I believe I was incorrect in my initial assumption. Frightened is the only condition listed that reduces automatically at the end of your turn, with all other conditions usually coming with a duration associated. Take Ray of Enfeeblement for example. It lists that the target is Enfeebled 1 for 1 minute on a success. Normally Enfeebled does not reduce at the end of your turn, so there's no additional line saying that it can't be reduced until the spell is over. The same would go for spells like Evil Eye and Dirge of Doom, but there's a slight difference here, so I will use Evil Eye as an example:
1. You cast Evil Eye and the target fails. They are Frightened 1 until the spell ends.
2. The target can't reduce the condition in any way as long as you can see them, and they ended their turn in your line of sight, maintaining the condition.
3. You sustain the spell, maintaining the glare for the next round.
4. The target realizes your creepy glare is what's freaking them out, so they duck behind a wall gaining total concealment from you. At the end of their round their Frightened condition ends, and so does the spell.
The main difference here is that if you do not sustain the spell the condition associated with it ends at the end of the turn in which you failed to sustain it. If you feel it shouldn't be this way, replace Frightened 1 with enfeebled 1 and think about it in that way. Why would enfeebled last after the spell wasn't sustained?
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The main difference here is that if you do not sustain the spell the condition associated with it ends at the end of the turn in which you failed to sustain it. If you feel it shouldn't be this way, replace Frightened 1 with enfeebled 1 and think about it in that way. Why would enfeebled last after the spell wasn't sustained?
As you said yourself, frightened is a unique condition with a specific rule for how it is reduced. Why wouldn't it work differently? Unlike enfeebled, its duration is not generally linked to another effect.
Counter version of your argument: What if the spell made the target sickened 1 instead with the same can't reduce it while sustaining rule? Sickened is only different from frightened beause it takes an action and a save to remove (ignoring the "can't ingest stuff" bit). If it would end the moment the spell is no longer sustained, its unique duration would be negated completely.
Also, look at the Fear spell. That one doesn't even have a duration but surely you wouldn't argue that this causes the frightened condition to end immediately after you finish the cast?
I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you. Just challenging your point for the sake of discussion. Because I really don't see a reason by RAW why the condition would end if the witch doesn't sustain Evil Eye.
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The main difference here is that if you do not sustain the spell the condition associated with it ends at the end of the turn in which you failed to sustain it. If you feel it shouldn't be this way, replace Frightened 1 with enfeebled 1 and think about it in that way. Why would enfeebled last after the spell wasn't sustained?As you said yourself, frightened is a unique condition with a specific rule for how it is reduced. Why wouldn't it work differently? Unlike enfeebled, its duration is not generally linked to another effect.
Counter version of your argument: What if the spell made the target sickened 1 instead with the same can't reduce it while sustaining rule? Sickened is only different from frightened beause it takes an action and a save to remove (ignoring the "can't ingest stuff" bit). If it would end the moment the spell is no longer sustained, its unique duration would be negated completely.
Also, look at the Fear spell. That one doesn't even have a duration but surely you wouldn't argue that this causes the frightened condition to end immediately after you finish the cast?
I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you. Just challenging your point for the sake of discussion. Because I really don't see a reason by RAW why the condition would end if the witch doesn't sustain Evil Eye.
The only thing different about Frightened from other conditions is that it reduces automatically with no check. The duration of the Fear spell actually says "varies" for that exact reason, it only lasts as long as the effect stays on the target.
As for sickened, I want to point your attention to Phantom Pain. The duration of this spell is 1 minute, and you can be sickened for that whole minute, but once you reduce the value to 0 the spell ends. This does not mean after that minute you are still sickened. There's also Mariner's Curse, a spell with no duration where once the curse is removed you wouldn't be sickened anymore. In fact most spells with sickened don't specify a duration, which only Sickened and Frightened can do since they have built in ways to remove them. Frightened and Sickened don't follow different rules about when they fall off just because they have built in ways to remove them.