Initial Impression: Lack of true focus

[Verzen]

The summoner, at least, feels to me to mainly be about the Eidolon, but it tacks on summon monster (or variants) here and there and synthesis doesn't really feel right. It feels like you just lose the summoner portion and there is no real mechanical benefit to taking the feat. In some ways, it could be considered a downgrade since you can no longer cast spells. You're essentially taking a feat in order to limit yourself.

I think the class should have one more designation at level 1 for a class ability and that is picking the method of which you handle the summoning ability.

For example, not everyone wants to have an Eidolon. I've discussed with several people that they want a class that's strictly focused on summon monster or summon undead or the variants and improving on those summoning abilities.

Others want a really cool synthesis ability that really jives well with the class so they can become their Eidolon.

And then there are those who DO want an Eidolon.

Furthermore, I feel like the Eidolons lack true customization that can alter the little things. I think they should get an "evolution pool" but the evolution pool is 'similar to' familiar abilities.

So here is my suggestion...

Summoner Ideologue

Manifestation
The summoner can cast their summon ability (determined by their spell tradition, so summon monster for arcane, summon animal for primal etc). Manifestation summoners gain a summon pool similar to the font that clerics get with heal/harm spells, but instead it works for summon monster equal to 1 + your charisma modifier. Each monster summoned gains the same amount of evolution points you'd normally assign your Eidolon. Your summoned minions gain those abilities.

Synthesis
The summoner becomes infused with an otherworldly being. He gets the stats, evolutions, and abilities of his choice of Eidolon but he cannot summon it as a different creature. He simply summons the Eidolon within his own self and gains the evolutions of the Eidolon, uses the stats of the Summoner. He can still cast spells like normal while within the synthesis form. In terms of how the summoner looks, the synthesis creates a chimeric hybrid between the summoner and his Eidolon.
Essentially what Synthesis would do is it would use the stats of the summoner (to prevent front loading caster stats and still having good martial stats), but the summoner gains the evolutions, abilities, and everything else that the Eidolon would gain. If the Eidolon would gain an increase in their unarmed attack or unarmored defense, the synthesis gains those benefits instead, but only if synthesized with the Eidolon.

Conduit
The summoner gains an Eidolon like normal. This would be the playtest version.

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Eidolons also have evolution points very similar to what familiars have. These are slight modifications to the Eidolon's capabilities, but offer some slight customization and mechanical uniqueness per Eidolon.

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The summoner dedication is allowed to pick the synthesis, conduit, or manifestation ideologues, but at reduced effectiveness.

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With these alterations, I think the summoner would be a fun class that offered a lot of uniqueness and that each summoner would be drastically different than the next. The sheer amount of unique combinations would be a lot more than just straight up having an Eidolon.

You can be a synthesis Angel, summon a bunch of angelic beings, or have an angel partner, for example, which would triple the amount of options and customization you could take as the class.

Tell me what you guys think.

[DrakoVongola1]

The eidolon should not be optional, if it's optional then it loses its importance to the class and can't be allowed to shine because the class has to function without it.

Imo a character focused on summoning creatures would fit an archetype better, Summoner can and should have options for it as well but that's not the focus of the class.

I do agree Synthesis should get more, but I suspect we'll see more feats based around that in the full release

[KrispyXIV]

I'm honestly shocked that "Summon X as a Focus Spell" isn't in the class as printed, where X is a trait shared by your eidolon - but not while your Eidolon is manifested.

[Eoni]

KrispyXIV wrote:

I'm honestly shocked that "Summon X as a Focus Spell" isn't in the class as printed, where X is a trait shared by your eidolon - but not while your Eidolon is manifested.

Judging by the sidebar for the Angel Eidolon getting Summon Animal, I'm guessing that could be the plan. Personally, I'd love that as I liked using Summon Monster more than my Eidolon in 1e. Something like a 2 action focus power and access to the Conjuration Wizard's Augment Summoning as a cantrip would be great.

[Keydan]

Had the exact same thoughts in the next thread over. No focus. With respect to how P2E tried to deconstruct many classes in to a base chassis with giving the players the tools to select what you want to focus on, like the druid focusing on casting or wildshape, or alchemist into mutagens or bombs - the summoner is a bust. There should be several subclasses that focus on what you personally want your summoner to be about:

- An Eidolon Caller with a set of outsiders and monsters to choose from, each with their set of quirks and eidolon abilities to choose from. Can always add more weird options here.

- A Spiritualist with a set of emotion-based spirits and emotion based abilities to choose from. Can add more weird spirits and ghosts here.

- A Syntheists, who is your "mutagenist" to your alchemist, you can also roll in the shifter angle here. You gain the offensive form, can be a back-up front-liner like the mutagenist alchemist with a set of abilities lifter from the eidolon caller. Piggybacks on Eidolon Caller.

- A Master Summoner, gets a smaller pick of abilities and eidolon, can't use the Act together thing, for example, gets its increased attack and defenses slower, but you are actually better at using your everyday summoning spells. Can evolve summons, have access to all/most summons, focus spells that make summons more powerful instead of the 7th and 17th level eidolon boosts, for example. You basically focus your eidoon to to a few thigns good to be your go-to aid, but in combat summon other creatures and be a an actual summoner. Piggybacks on Eidolon Caller.