Hello everyone,
I wasn't sure if this was the correct place to put this, but here we go.
I am currently GM'ing a campaign for an interesting group of ppl, and my question is about what sort of system to expect from a religion such as Erastil.
A bit background information to clarify the situation.
Our group is one with a few extraordinary people, as with every adventure, yet the two characters in question are an inquisitor to Erastil and a werewolf lady who is also the wizard in the group.
So the background for both of them is that they lost their home towns, the inquisitor to a giant raiding party and the werewolf to the Erastil church as they raided the town of Wolf's Ear. No surprice that our werewolf hold a grudge against Erastil, now since the group became aware of her secret a good portion into the campaign, they were easily convinced that she was not a ferocious monster, even the inquisitor could not find a good enough ground to strike her.
which brings us to the current event, as our werewolf has finally reunited with the survivors of her own people, it leaves the inquisitor in a tight spot, not only does these werewolves show enough restraint to act and live as proper people, they also cry out against the injustice done to them.
Now since our inquisitor has seen for himself that there are lycanthropes who can live peacefully, he has decided to take up the case before the more radical elements turn this whole thing ugly again.
He has a profession as a Barrister, and has himself been suggesting to help solve this in a way that justice can be properly done. Now here is where I am at a bit of a loss. He apperantly have ideas about filing a complaint, and then make a case from there, as if engaging in bureaucracy and paperworks to get it done in a sort of lawful manner.
But how much can one expect stuff like this in a setting like Pathfinder, and how much would it be the case for Erastil?
My own thoughts were to let him play a pivotal role in finding a solution, yet without taking the real sense of justice out of it, their best hope is to properly mend the old wounds, and not to be juggling about with papers and procedures.
Thanks for the input, highly appreciated.
They are in Varisia and currently in Sanos Forest, came from Magnimar.
So whatever kind of juridical system, would probally be in that city.
I promised that I'll give him some proper info about how the system works and where he and his church stand before next playthrough, so it's nice to have some outside inputs as to how I could go about it, and to obtain some more insight into the world itself.
I dont want to stop him from thinking up solutions himself, but I best clarify what is realistic as well as what there is to work with.
Erastil seems like one of the gods with their religion firmly planted in the grassroots sector. So a lot of this will be at the village headman or town council level.
At best, a few of the villages in the same region with shared interests might join together for a certain shared purpose. So nearby towns with cattle might form a cattle association with backing of the church to insure stable income. At least, outside of major events that threaten major areas- ie- large invasions like the goblinblood wars (not sure if Erastil worshipers played a big part in that, but a lot of the initial damage was in the small, rural communities the faith thrives in)
You will NOT likely see Erastil worshipers go with the idea of a distant governing body that is not familiar with the situation on the ground in their own personal community. Even if there is one, I highly doubt the local branch would be very happy to accept an order to allow potential man eating beasts in their down just due to some papers sent by someone they have barely even spoken to before. So expect the decision to be ignored.
They are in Varisia and currently in Sanos Forest, came from Magnimar.So whatever kind of juridical system, would probally be in that city.
Local self-governance is not unusual. Some of the largest US Christian denominations have total local control (UCC, UU). I can't see any local churches that worship Erastil having less agency than that or ceding any decision making power to some urban bureaucracy.
Local self-governance is not unusual. Some of the largest US Christian denominations have total local control (UCC, UU). I can't see any local churches that worship Erastil having less agency than that or ceding any decision making power to some urban bureaucracy.
Thats a good point, I guess the church of Erastil do have some governing powers in various small settlements, like Turtleback Ferry where the Mayor is also the priest in town.
I'll use that in this adventure, perhaps my players can find a way to make use of it.@Iemeres Thanks for your insight, I do believe that Erastil in particular would be difficult to ever accept a village of Lycanthropes.
My players have their work cut out for them.
I think the Lawful nature of Erastil implies a strong structure of some sort, even if grassroots at its foundation. Their mindset means maybe there's not the hierarchy of most Lawful organizations, but I doubt it could swing toward local self-governance. I'd expect frequent formal councils, a focus on consistent doctrine across the churches, maybe an annual calendar for which topics to address, perhaps a roving overseer who checks in on outlying congregations, and so forth.
The corporate church knows best.
"Accepting Lycanthropes" would depend on how cognizant the church was of how some lycanthropes can be good. I'd think they'd be aware of that and have a proper procedure to address such things, likely having oversight as part of that. If not, they could call together regional leaders for a forum to discuss, basing most of their arguments on tradition (if possible) with perhaps the practical solution of oversight until a formal decision could be made (as that may take awhile).
Nah, lawful doesn't mean central authority at all. In this case it's strong civil order within the specific community. So the village elder is the person in charge, and everyone listens to them, or brings things to them for judgement, etc. And there are unwritten rules around, etc.I think the Lawful nature of Erastil implies a strong structure of some sort, even if grassroots at its foundation. Their mindset means maybe there's not the hierarchy of most Lawful organizations, but I doubt it could swing toward local self-governance. I'd expect frequent formal councils, a focus on consistent doctrine across the churches, maybe an annual calendar for which topics to address, perhaps a roving overseer who checks in on outlying congregations, and so forth.
The corporate church knows best."Accepting Lycanthropes" would depend on how cognizant the church was of how some lycanthropes can be good. I'd think they'd be aware of that and have a proper procedure to address such things, likely having oversight as part of that. If not, they could call together regional leaders for a forum to discuss, basing most of their arguments on tradition (if possible) with perhaps the practical solution of oversight until a formal decision could be made (as that may take awhile).
Seems fine since I hadn't mentioned a central authority at all.
That's a popular way to promote unity or putting the group before the individual, yet not the only. I reckon the Erastil corporate church wouldn't be like the Vatican/Catholicism (hierarchy in overdrive), but rather more a clustering of the churches into overarching community of churches with their leaders working together (and making it a point to work together/support each other). So my aforementioned calendar of services wouldn't be passed down by decree, rather voted on for the sake of unity (that being a prime tenet of most Lawful religions).I agree the village elder would have their say, yet within the tenets, practices, & theological dialogue within the church. No choice would be purely on their own judgment (unless forced or a conflict with the Good portion of the religion arises). And if the issue fell outside the bounds of their learning (or territory!), then that'd require more work to ensure their decision fell within Erastil's norms (or his churches') (which with magic might actually be much easier done than it sounds!)
There'd also be an excellent chance the Erastil elder would make a point of including other prominent folk in any decision and to check in with the community's thoughts first.
Every society naturally has unwritten rules, yet I'd think a Lawful organization would seek to quantify those, spell them out so that newcomers understood them. For unity, group clarity, harmony, etc.
Nah, lawful doesn't mean central authority at all. In this case it's strong civil order within the specific community. So the village elder is the person in charge, and everyone listens to them, or brings things to them for judgement, etc. And there are unwritten rules around, etc.I think the Lawful nature of Erastil implies a strong structure of some sort, even if grassroots at its foundation. Their mindset means maybe there's not the hierarchy of most Lawful organizations, but I doubt it could swing toward local self-governance. I'd expect frequent formal councils, a focus on consistent doctrine across the churches, maybe an annual calendar for which topics to address, perhaps a roving overseer who checks in on outlying congregations, and so forth.
The corporate church knows best."Accepting Lycanthropes" would depend on how cognizant the church was of how some lycanthropes can be good. I'd think they'd be aware of that and have a proper procedure to address such things, likely having oversight as part of that. If not, they could call together regional leaders for a forum to discuss, basing most of their arguments on tradition (if possible) with perhaps the practical solution of oversight until a formal decision could be made (as that may take awhile).
Or strict adherence to the rules of the town council (elders?) or the results of a vote at a town hall meeting. Or an extremely harsh neighborhood association that leaves you notices because your lawn isn't cut according to its rules.
I remember that the Deadeye Lodge is in Magnimar. So there is the possibility there is a large Erastil church in a larger metropolitan area (likely there for the benefit for people that move there or visit from more rural satellite towns that produce the larger city's food). While its overall foundational strength is questionable (only a dozen on call archers as a force), it likely has some influence on the politics of the city.
That is probably where you want to aim- a church that complain to the local lord and get some degree of action. While I still question how effective the central church is at commanding things that occur far away at the location in question, it could give someone with direct legal authority an excuse to meddle in this church related matter.
That is probably where you want to aim- a church that complain to the local lord and get some degree of action. While I still question how effective the central church is at commanding things that occur far away at the location in question, it could give someone with direct legal authority an excuse to meddle in this church related matter.Out of all the Lawful religions, I'd expect Erastilians to be the ones to say "Why are you people telling me how to live my life, in my village, when you know nothing about the problems we face and the way we do things."
Yep. Which is why I think getting a legal authority involved so the answer is "if you do, we will arrest you". That could lead to blow back through if the local lord arrests members of the church (and that reaction might spread to other branches in other villages). However, if he gets involves at the behest of a popular religious authority, then he will have more cover.
I still expect this to come to a head where you fight with the members of this Erastil group when they try to covertly 'take care of the problem' despite the legal orders and advice from other religious institutions. But this will keep things on a smaller scale where you are defending against a small group of extremists.
That is probably where you want to aim- a church that complain to the local lord and get some degree of action. While I still question how effective the central church is at commanding things that occur far away at the location in question, it could give someone with direct legal authority an excuse to meddle in this church related matter.Out of all the Lawful religions, I'd expect Erastilians to be the ones to say "Why are you people telling me how to live my life, in my village, when you know nothing about the problems we face and the way we do things."Yep. Which is why I think getting a legal authority involved so the answer is "if you do, we will arrest you". That could lead to blow back through if the local lord arrests members of the church (and that reaction might spread to other branches in other villages). However, if he gets involves at the behest of a popular religious authority, then he will have more cover.
I still expect this to come to a head where you fight with the members of this Erastil group when they try to covertly 'take care of the problem' despite the legal orders and advice from other religious institutions. But this will keep things on a smaller scale where you are defending against a small group of extremists.
I think that it is not a bad idea to make the Deadeye Lodge like a sort of central hub for the surrounding villages and towns, a forum for which various elders and clergymen can arrive on rare occations to discuss urgent matters concerning perhaps several towns if not the entire region.
To that extent, it could even be used as a gathering spot for when he wish to present his case to as many of these community elders as possible.That aside, I also thought of adding in his own inquisitor Order, being exactly that of fanatics, who sometimes may take the law in their own hands, and who travels from town to town.
While that may seem quite unlike Erastil clergies, it is something akin to travelling paladins of same faith.
I also like to thank you all for your inputs so far, it has been most helpful.