Does any monster get more than 3 actions?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


I can't think of any, though I imagine a monster with some kind of time-warping powers might. I'm also kind of surprised the quicklings aren't permanently hasted or the like.


Ettin: each head gets 2 actions and a reaction.

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The xulgath thoughtmaw, ish.


There are a variety of creatures with abilities that give them the quickened condition. However, that usually takes actions to activate, and has various conditions.

I know that specters are prebuffed with quickened if they are going through "not torturing humans" withdrawal. They get an extra action they can only spend on their melee attack, and then lose the quickened condition when they get it off/"get their fix".

This is notable, because
1. They are undead, so it is fairly easy for the GM to justify having them trapped in a tomb for a few years.
2. They can spend 3 move actions (fly 40=120 feet) and the get off a high damage ghost melee attack that also does mind control. Which is a fairly significant turn 1 "hello".


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I think most monsters that do more in a turn do it by having abilities that let them do more with the same amount of actions rather than having more actions (like the Hydras storm of jaws, where it makes as many strikes as it has heads for only 2 actions).

It's probably supposed to be easier to manage for the GM - remembering that the creature has a passive ability that gives it 4 actions while everything else has 3 is harder than looking at your creature and seeing a list of useable abilities that cost different amounts of actions.


lemeres wrote:

There are a variety of creatures with abilities that give them the quickened condition. However, that usually takes actions to activate, and has various conditions.

I know that specters are prebuffed with quickened if they are going through "not torturing humans" withdrawal. They get an extra action they can only spend on their melee attack, and then lose the quickened condition when they get it off/"get their fix".

This is notable, because
1. They are undead, so it is fairly easy for the GM to justify having them trapped in a tomb for a few years.
2. They can spend 3 move actions (fly 40=120 feet) and the get off a high damage ghost melee attack that also does mind control. Which is a fairly significant turn 1 "hello".

There are some classic adventures with starving specters driven mad, so it's kind of funny-cool to see a mechanical aspect to it decades later.

And it's worse than a mere swift engagement. The specter may come out of a tomb (as in through a wall or sarcophagus), smack twice, then retreat. If it made a thrall or two, all the better. Do you Ready an action for when it returns or handle your "ally"...somehow?

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Separately, as Tender Tendrils points out, monsters gain the ability to combine attacks or other ways of bettering their action economy. So Improved Grab (which Roc at level 9 gets pretty early compared to others) or the Bone Devil's ability to cast Invisibility w/ 1 action or a Balor's ability to cast Dim. Door w/ 1 action. Plus Fast Swallow, extra Reactions, sometimes Free Actions (i.e. Mu Spore's Grasping Tendrils). So not so much Quickened per se, but effectively so with other options rather than the generic "extra Stride or Strike".


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Tender Tendrils wrote:
It's probably supposed to be easier to manage for the GM - remembering that the creature has a passive ability that gives it 4 actions while everything else has 3 is harder than looking at your creature and seeing a list of useable abilities that cost different amounts of actions.

It also helps define a monster's tactics. Getting four attacks for two actions is an action economy saver that tells you a creature should move a bit then attack a bunch. That's its MO.

If it instead had five actions in a turn, then that creature would also be able to do things like cast an extra spell in a round or move much faster because it could have two extra move actions. Stuff that might not line up with its flavor or intended design niche very well.


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The monster economy savers also give more player counterplay than just giving the monsters extra actions.

For example the Marilith can make 6(!) strikes with 2 actions, with conditional clauses. Players can play around this by denying the demon her actions so this activity can't be used effectively and makes the fight feel different. If she just had 6 actions this wouldn't work so well.


Castilliano wrote:
And it's worse than a mere swift engagement. The specter may come out of a tomb (as in through a wall or sarcophagus), smack twice, then retreat. If it made a thrall or two, all the better. Do you Ready an action for when it returns or handle your "ally"...somehow?

Incorporeal creatures are Slowed 1 when they are inside a wall. So, RAI, you can't do that (by you can smack once per turn which is already pretty powerfull).


SuperBidi wrote:
Castilliano wrote:
And it's worse than a mere swift engagement. The specter may come out of a tomb (as in through a wall or sarcophagus), smack twice, then retreat. If it made a thrall or two, all the better. Do you Ready an action for when it returns or handle your "ally"...somehow?
Incorporeal creatures are Slowed 1 when they are inside a wall. So, RAI, you can't do that (by you can smack once per turn which is already pretty powerfull).

That's why I phrased it like I did so that the Specter wasn't starting inside a solid object. Tombs & sarcophagi are hollow and passing through a wall doesn't impose the Slowed condition.

It can continue to come, attack, & leave until the party breaks down whatever barrier it passes through.


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Castilliano wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
Castilliano wrote:
And it's worse than a mere swift engagement. The specter may come out of a tomb (as in through a wall or sarcophagus), smack twice, then retreat. If it made a thrall or two, all the better. Do you Ready an action for when it returns or handle your "ally"...somehow?
Incorporeal creatures are Slowed 1 when they are inside a wall. So, RAI, you can't do that (by you can smack once per turn which is already pretty powerfull).

That's why I phrased it like I did so that the Specter wasn't starting inside a solid object. Tombs & sarcophagi are hollow and passing through a wall doesn't impose the Slowed condition.

It can continue to come, attack, & leave until the party breaks down whatever barrier it passes through.

That's why I speak of RAI. The goal of this rule is exactly to punish what you say you're doing: "When inside an object, an incorporeal creature can’t perceive, attack, or interact with anything outside the object, and if it starts its turn in an object, it is slowed 1.". Inside the sarcophagus, the specter can't interact and perceive anything outside the sarcophagus.

Otherwise, nearly no party could ever beat a Poltergeist as it is immune to spells, melee attacks and non-magical ranged attacks with this strategy.

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