Turn 1:
Pounce Bite Claw Claw Rake Rake->Grapple
Turn 2:
Maintain Grapple
Success
Now automatically deal damage with 1 natural attack as normal for Grapple
Rake now.
I'm dumb. Grab has weird interactions with constrict. But I see where the confusion was.
Turn 1: Pounce- claw, claw, rake, rake, bite (grab)
Turn 2: rake, rake (free action), grapple for effect- usually damage or pin.
Rake triggers off either of two conditions. 1) charging with the pounce ability. 2) starting your turn with the grappled condition. If you meet either condition you get your 2 rake attacks (which are claws for any feats/abilities that key off of claws).
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Can I really use rake attacks before I have maintained a grapple, that doesn't sound quite right..?Turn 1: Pounce- claw, claw, rake, rake, bite (grab)
Turn 2: rake, rake (free action), grapple for effect- usually damage or pin.
Rake triggers off either of two conditions. 1) charging with the pounce ability. 2) starting your turn with the grappled condition. If you meet either condition you get your 2 rake attacks (which are claws for any feats/abilities that key off of claws).
You can use Rake only if the target is grappled, and the first thing you must do when a turn start is to decide if you maintain a grapple and then, before you do anything affected by you maintaining the grapple you must try to maintain it.
There is little stuff you can do without knowing first if you have maintained a grapple or not.
No movement, as that is affected by the grapple.
No spellcasting, as that is affected by the grapple (if you are grappled you have to make a concentration check to cast a spell).
No standard action, as trying to maintain a grapple requires one.
You can activate exceptional and supernatural abilities that are free or swift actions and drop items held in your hands. Maybe some move equivalent action, but nothing specific come to my mind.
When a creature with this special attack charges, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
If you have both pounce and rake then you can make rake attacks on a charge, not just when grappling the enemy.
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so rake after?
Rake (Ex)
A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature’s description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.
Grab (Ex)
If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature’s Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
So:
- if you have pounce you can rake when you make a charge;- if you have grab and successfully grab a target you can rake in the same turn;
- when you are maintaining a grapple you can rake after a successful grapple check.
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So:
- if you have pounce you can rake when you make a charge;
- if you have grab and successfully grab a target you can rake in the same turn;
- when you are maintaining a grapple you can rake after a successful grapple check.
Not quite. First and third are correct, but the second is not correct (unless you are also pouncing). Grab does not let you rake. Even though it's a free action to start the grapple if you have grab, you don't meet the condition of "beginning your turn already grappling" in the rake description.
There are exactly two conditions in which you can use your rake attacks.
1) You have pounce and charged this turn.
- or -
2) You started your turn grappling.
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature’s description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.
I think part of the confusion is that grab actually grants an alternative way to grapple in addition to getting the free check.
The sequence is as follows. You attack with your bite which grants you a free grapple check. At this point you can either A) Grapple as normal or B) Use the special grapple option that grab grants.
----------------------If you choose to do A------------------------------------
Then you make your grapple check as normal with a +4 bonus to the check (thanks to grab).
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
Both of you gain the grappled condition as a result of the successful check.
Assuming the creature fails to break free you make a grapple check at the start of your turn as a standard action at a +9 to the check (+4 from grab and +5 for being the one in control of the grapple). If you succeed at this check you may
-Move with the grappled creature
-inflict damage with a light weapon or natural attack
-Give the pinned condition
-restrain the creature
If you choose to deal damage you can pick any light weapon or natural attack available to you and deal it's damage. You will probably want to pick your bite attack but you don't have to. You have the option to claw them if you wanted.
Once the above has been resolved, you now get 2 free claw attacks against the creature via rake. These are normal attacks against the creature's AC.
Rinse and repeat each round until you either let go of the enemy, they break free or one of you dies.
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----------------------If you choose to do B------------------------------------
Then you make your grapple check as normal with a total -16 to the check (-20 & +4 from grab).
If you manage to succeed then your opponent gains the grappled condition but you do not.
Once again assuming the creature fails to break free you make a grapple check at the start of your turn as a standard action at a -11 to the check (-20 & +4 from grab and +5 for being the one in control of the grapple). If you succeed at this check you automatically deal bite damage to the creature if you have the constrict ability (which dire tigers do not normally have), if you have the constrict ability you can choose to also deal constriction damage if you want to (but you don't have to). If you do not have the constrict ability then you do not deal bite damage to the enemy. However, now you may
-Move with the grappled creature
-inflict damage with a light weapon or natural attack
-Give the pinned condition
-restrain the creature
If you choose to deal damage you can pick any light weapon or natural attack available to you and deal it's damage. While you might want to choose your bite attack you can't because it is currently occupied. However, you still have the option to claw them.
Once this damage has been resolved, you now get 2 free claw attacks against the creature via rake. These are normal attacks against the creature's AC.
Again rinse and repeat each round until you either let go of the enemy, they break free or one of you dies.
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Edit: I finally figured out the strange wording that exists in the grab ability and have adjusted things above to reflect how it works.