My party has been suffering from a very low damage output, and I was thinking about changing up my build to facilitate that. I'm currently playing a level 4 liberator and I have sorcerer dedication and the glutton's jaw focus spell, neither of which are really doing much for me, so I definitely want to change them (if not barbarian, then something from the APG). I figure if I do this, then I go Fury instinct, since not having an instinct ability doesn't matter as much for a multiclass and none of the others really match the character's flavor. I guess my question is, is it worth it?
Rage isn't worth it past first levels. -1 AC for +2 damage seems a very bad gamble. Its only advantage are the extra hit points, so I find it a nice ability when you are next to dropping and want some hit points even if it's at the cost of 1 point of AC.
Yea, getting crit because you dropped your AC by 1 will blow right through those extra h.p. You kind of have to get Resiliency and plenty of Barb feats to get it to pay off, and then as SB noted it's not so much for offense as hit points.
And arguably Glutton's Jaw is actually better for a burst of h.p. because there's no penalty and you can go back for a bite.
If you have 14 Dex, MCD Rogue can get you to Sneak Attack.
There's also Bard, though typically a Champion won't have the actions to spare for a Composition and the bonus may be too many levels away.
With your Cha, Intimidate could be useful to set up better attacks (timed so you & your allies can take advantage of it).
There's a reasonable chance you've invested in all you can as a Champion since there isn't that much (unless in a campaign themed along one of the Oath monsters. If your party leans too heavy toward defense & healing, then maybe go to a d12 weapon if you haven't already. If you're built shields or your party depends on you tanking with one, then you're likely capped with your PC as is.
If it doesn't disturb your RP/deity too much, LG for Paladin would get you a more aggressive Reaction though that seems a bit cheesy.
"Very low" sounds like a party composition issue ultimately.
Are people saving their resources too much? Supporting too much without any offense of their own?
Ultimately though, if you're having fun and getting through the battles fine, maybe you don't need more offense, just to accept y'all have a different route to winning. Maybe.
Yeah, I have to ask what's the party composition as that will figure into the feel of overall party damage more than what any one individual character can do.
And further, no one character can pickup and carry the entire dead weight of a bad character on their own, let alone a whole party. A party of 4 might be able to carry the dead weight of 1 poor character, but it's still going to be a challenge.
So if you got something like a Cleric, a Sorcerer, a Champion, and a Bard then what you have is simply a poorly built party composition.
Only the champion is martially oriented, and even then they're more on the defense. A bard is good for buffing, but needs more martials in the party to really make it advantageous. Sorcerer can deal some decent burst damage with spells, but might be too afraid to cast every round, and wont be able to deal the same kind of sustained damage of a martial character. Cleric is another sort of support buffer role, but without the martial characters to make it useful.
The 2 points of attack bonus that a full martial character gets (or the fighters 4 points) make a big difference in damage per turn.
I agree it's a party comp problem, and we're all trying to figure out what we can do. I'm a Liberator with a meteor hammer. I try to use reach a lot and frequently trip to waste enemy actions, and occasionally demoralize.
We have a tiger stance monk who's focusing on ki spells. She's been the main damage dealer of the party so far. We generally agree she has the best build suited to the party.
We have an occult witch, who just started prepping blast spells in addition to debuffs, and we've already seen good returns from that.
We have a leaf druid who primarily heals and summons, and has been hesitant to prep blasts because it doesn't suit her personality. But we've learned about a leaf druid exclusive animal companion coming out in the APG, so she'll probably pick that up.
I tend to be unsatifisied mixing a martial into a champion (in general mixing martials is tough, at least in ways that scale reasonable across a wide range of levels).
This might be a more drastic change, but....
I have been happy mixing Champion into most martials -- I'm running a Dragon Barbarian Paladin of Apsu. His AC while raging has been a bit better (full plate) and requires less dex investment; he'll pick up Retributive Strike soon, so having an easier to trigger offensive reaction will be nice for increasing attacks/damage while raging. Sentinel from what I've been told in the APG, might be an even stronger defensive option if you only looking to add extra tankiness to a range/rogue/caster w/o wating other champion features. Mine went two weapons (not ideal for a barbarian, but flavor (tooth (pick) and claw (battleax)) choice and not complete wasted. Going with a shield & shield ally could increase the defensiveness. You already get weapon critical effects while raging, picking up blade ally is only useful for the runes (which is still good). Or you can just skip getting an ally from the MC and save those feats for more Barbarian stuff.
I tend to be unsatifisied mixing a martial into a champion (in general mixing martials is tough, at least in ways that scale reasonable across a wide range of levels).
This might be a more drastic change, but....
I have been happy mixing Champion into most martials -- I'm running a Dragon Barbarian Paladin of Apsu. His AC while raging has been a bit better (full plate) and requires less dex investment; he'll pick up Retributive Strike soon, so having an easier to trigger offensive reaction will be nice for increasing attacks/damage while raging. Sentinel from what I've been told in the APG, might be an even stronger defensive option if you only looking to add extra tankiness to a range/rogue/caster w/o wating other champion features. Mine went two weapons (not ideal for a barbarian, but flavor (tooth (pick) and claw (battleax)) choice and not complete wasted. Going with a shield & shield ally could increase the defensiveness. You already get weapon critical effects while raging, picking up blade ally is only useful for the runes (which is still good). Or you can just skip getting an ally from the MC and save those feats for more Barbarian stuff.
I have actually considered making her a fighter MC champion, but none of the barbarian instincts really fit her so I wouldn't make her a main barbarian.
Fighter MC champion is not particularly 'synergistic' but does have some nice effects. You already get the same or better armor proficiency progression as the archetype, you already get critical specialization in your chosen weapon group, so you don't need blade ally for that. To get the most out of the dedication you might need to switch from meteor hammer to gnome flickmace (sadly) -- reach plus knock prone on crit is still pretty close to your meteor hammer, and fighter's crit a lot. Then you can grab shield ally which is probably more useful given fighter's features. (I haven't looked into mount ally much, though). Lay on hands, and the various auras can be very useful. The Oaths can be good if you're in a campaign with an known opponent theme.
You'll end up with shield block, AoO, and champion's reactions so you'll probably have a useful reaction every round in combat, and you;ll probably like the extra reaction feats to capitalize on that. While I tend to like Redeemers and Liberators more than Paladins, if its damage you're after, the retributive strike wins out.
I have actually considered making her a fighter MC champion, but none of the barbarian instincts really fit her so I wouldn't make her a main barbarian.Isn't this the reason they printed the Fury instinct? No significant bonuses beyond the expected boosts but similarly no Anathenma to fuss with.
Yeah, but it has low damage compared to the others and not really any feat support.