I'd like to make a bladebound magus for our upcoming homebrewed evil campaign, but i'm not sure which way to go with it.
From what i understand, it's best to go either STR bladebound or DEX bladebound kensai. The problem is that i feel like the STR magus is too frail/buff dependant and the DEX is too penalized by obligatory feats (so no combat casting & whatnot for a long time)
I've never played a magus, do any of you have experience with the bladebound or kensai magus?
It sounds like you’re already pretty familiar with the pros and cons of each. And people promote both strategies, so one isn’t really clearly better than the other. Ultimately, you’ll need to choose the one that best fits the flavor of the character you want to build. Do you want to be a strong magic knight or an agile magic samurai?
If that doesn’t help, you might want to consider your party’s diversity. Do you already have a strength or dexterity based party member?
Concentration is a problem which can be more or less solved by items. If your evil party is likely to get rich quick then don't worry about it. Personally I'd hate to spend a feat on combat casting ever.
Kensai is a slow starting archetype. Low AC at first, not enough spells for a long time. If you're starting at level 1 I'd avoid it.
If that doesn’t help, you might want to consider your party’s diversity. Do you already have a strength or dexterity based party member?
You're right, i'm not sure about what i want, the only thing i know is the flavor of the PC: I want other PCs to think my PC is mad/dumb because he obeys voices only he can hear (the sword). I think this is what our party is going for:
- A reach human hunter that plays around teamwork feats with his companion
- A natural attack dwarf alchemist that might be able to heal us a bit
- A gobelin (no class/build yet)
Concentration is a problem which can be more or less solved by items. If your evil party is likely to get rich quick then don't worry about it. Personally I'd hate to spend a feat on combat casting ever.
Kensai is a slow starting archetype. Low AC at first, not enough spells for a long time. If you're starting at level 1 I'd avoid it.
We're starting a lvl 2, but i fell like the AC/spells problems can be solved with an 18 DEX start and some pearls of power.
The thing that kensai gives up that I really miss is spell recall and improved spell recall. Those are nearly required if your build is focusing on a single low level spell to spam with spell combat. But improved spell recall also gives you the ability to prep any spell in your spellbook as a swift action. That's a huge ability, allowing you to always have the exact right spell for a situation.
I'm not sure if being crazy prepared fits the mold of your crazy character concept though.
The character isn't crazy, it's just that the sword only talks to him so the others will think i hear/obey inexistant voices.
Seems like you have a good Frontline, I would go STR.
Focus on burst damage spells first, with the aim of felling enemies before your defenses get compromised. Once you are out, fight defensively.
ALWAYS use terrain at your advantage. Don't rush in. You are better off playing tactical.
Slowly start getting defensive spells (your level 2 slots are good for that). By 7th, you'll be pretty set both offensively and defensively.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
From what i understand, it's best to go either STR bladebound or DEX bladebound kensai. The problem is that i feel like the STR magus is too frail/buff dependant and the DEX is too penalized by obligatory feats (so no combat casting & whatnot for a long time)
As Avr already said, I would definitely not recommend kensai anywhere near level 1 or 2. It becomes good around level eleven, if you ever get there.
The str-based Magus isn't that frail compared to other frontliners. A good way of dealing with it is opening each combat with a Shield spell. You can also get more AC from race or trait.
Alternatively, a dex Magus can be less feat-dependent by focusing on debuffs (e.g. Frostbite + Enforcer + Rime Spell + Cruel Weapon) instead of damage.
You're right, i'm not sure about what i want, the only thing i know is the flavor of the PC: I want other PCs to think my PC is mad/dumb because he obeys voices only he can hear (the sword).
You might be out of luck on that one, in character every PC in the party is going to know that's a thing that happens. Maybe not exactly what a Black Blade is pretty much everybody is going to know that you might be legit.
I have played/ran a few Kensei, several other magi.
Mechanically a kensei is going to get a huge bonus from a one level dip in a class with armor proficiency. More so if it's a D12 and you take it at first level. Brawling Blademaster Samurai can be neat, so can barbarian.
For first level Feats you might want to be looking real hard at the stuff out of the core book. Lightning reflexes, toughness, and traits/fcb that up your hp or reflex save. The theoretical ability to pull something flashy off a few levels early is not worth dying.
Go with the strength or the DEX Build, wear armor with low Arcane Spell failure, take the 5% chance to not get off spells until you can have the feat to get around it. The armor will stack with intell to AC. If you have time to buff you'll be crazy tough to hit.
To be prepared you can take Extend Spell. Maybe get some rods too. Buff yourself with all the hour per level spells. At higher level you can get a few 10 minute per level in there too. Maybe pearls of power.
Dwarf, or to beat ultra technical any race with a bonus to con and wisdom, is going to help out (assuming you're on a point buy) because it will be relatively safe to make wisdom a dump stat when you have a good will save. It will also give you more hit points so you'll be less fragile. It gives a lot of circumstantial bonuses which may or may not be helpful depending on the style of gameplay. Plus darkvision.
From what i understand, it's best to go either STR bladebound or DEX bladebound kensai. The problem is that i feel like the STR magus is too frail/buff dependant and the DEX is too penalized by obligatory feats (so no combat casting & whatnot for a long time)As Avr already said, I would definitely not recommend kensai anywhere near level 1 or 2. It becomes good around level eleven, if you ever get there.
The DEX based kensai really comes online at 3rd level, when you get DEX to damage. After that, it just keeps getting better.
Before 3rd level, just play like a wizard with a limited spell selection. Stick to the rear and spam Acid Splash.
Mechanically a kensei is going to get a huge bonus from a one level dip in a class with armor proficiency. More so if it's a D12 and you take it at first level. Brawling Blademaster Samurai can be neat, so can barbarian.
The kensai follow the same arcane spell failure rules as a wizard. Armor proficiency will do you little good without significant investment in mitigating ASF.
The class that a kensai does benefit from a one level dip into is monk. Picking up Crane Style and possibly WIS or CHA to AC can make a substantial difference in the kensai's survival. Later on, you can add a second level for evasion, but it is not as big a deal as the first level.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
Before 3rd level, just play like a wizard with a limited spell selection. Stick to the rear and spam Acid Splash.
I'm sure that both a wizard and a Magus can do much better than ping from the rear for a piddly 1d3 damage per round :)
For instance, cast Shield to get your AC up, then engage. Or spell combat for Daze, 5' to attack the enemy you just dazed, and it can't counterattack since it's dazed now. Lots of characters don't have all their abilities at level 1 yet; that doesn't mean you go hide in the corner.
Mechanically a kensei is going to get a huge bonus from a one level dip in a class with armor proficiency.
To avoid a 20% spell failure chance, a nice dip is any class that can cast Mage Armor. Or get a wand for 750 gp, or a pearl of power if a teammate is willing to cast it on you.
take the 5% chance to not get off spells until you can have the feat to get around it.
I would really not recommend a feat that requires a swift action every round. You have a lot of competition on your swift actions already.
Before 3rd level, just play like a wizard with a limited spell selection. Stick to the rear and spam Acid Splash.I'm sure that both a wizard and a Magus can do much better than ping from the rear for a piddly 1d3 damage per round :)
For instance, cast Shield to get your AC up, then engage. Or spell combat for Daze, 5' to attack the enemy you just dazed, and it can't counterattack since it's dazed now. Lots of characters don't have all their abilities at level 1 yet; that doesn't mean you go hide in the corner.
Mechanically a kensei is going to get a huge bonus from a one level dip in a class with armor proficiency.To avoid a 20% spell failure chance, a nice dip is any class that can cast Mage Armor. Or get a wand for 750 gp, or a pearl of power if a teammate is willing to cast it on you.
take the 5% chance to not get off spells until you can have the feat to get around it.I would really not recommend a feat that requires a swift action every round. You have a lot of competition on your swift actions already.
Shrug. Yeah, but at low levels you don't have the spell slots or the duration to keep Mage armor up all day. It's a lot better to have something dependable and maybe not get the most possible optimization out of your Swift actions and not die. That's the problem with most Theory crafting. You'll be crazy powerful at level eight or 13 or whatever but most of the time you won't make it there.
The campaign will actually start from level 3, so i think i'll go DEX. Regarding kensai, i realized it removes too many interesting stuff from the magus just for INT to AC (that was the only thing i cared about), so i'll just be a bladebound.
Magi don't get mage armor, but i can cast it with a wand with no UMD check thanks to the arcane training half-elf alternate trait.
Here's the stats i'm going for (20pts, +2DEX):
STR: 10, DEX: 19, CON: 14, INT: 14, WIS: 10, CHA: 7.
I originally wanted to put more INT, but not having INT to AC made me lose interest in INT. I'm also dumping CHA because i'll take the student of philosophy trait.
Regarding feats, i don't know what to take outside of weapon finesse, dervish dance & intensifies spell so if you have any advice i'm all ear!
For a Dex Magus, you can probably afford a one level dip into Inspired Blade Swashbuckler for Dex-to-DMG with a Rapier at level one. Your Black Blade can be a Rapier, too, so it all works.
There are a million ways to make up for the lost caster level, and picking up Panache with a handful of Deeds isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Before 3rd level, just play like a wizard with a limited spell selection. Stick to the rear and spam Acid Splash.I'm sure that both a wizard and a Magus can do much better than ping from the rear for a piddly 1d3 damage per round :)
For instance, cast Shield to get your AC up, then engage. Or spell combat for Daze, 5' to attack the enemy you just dazed, and it can't counterattack since it's dazed now. Lots of characters don't have all their abilities at level 1 yet; that doesn't mean you go hide in the corner.
Mechanically a kensei is going to get a huge bonus from a one level dip in a class with armor proficiency.To avoid a 20% spell failure chance, a nice dip is any class that can cast Mage Armor. Or get a wand for 750 gp, or a pearl of power if a teammate is willing to cast it on you.
take the 5% chance to not get off spells until you can have the feat to get around it.I would really not recommend a feat that requires a swift action every round. You have a lot of competition on your swift actions already.
And I certainly do, but with 1 minute/level duration and reduced casting you have it up for 1-2 fights/day.
Also, being DEX based, I generally don't do much damage in melee before 3rd level and have to make a choice between finessing a dagger, and not get INT to AC, or swinging a scimitar and using STR for my to-hit.
Using a vial of acid for a focus item and casting acid splash tends to do comparable damage while being more accurate, and I still get to hold my scimitar and benefit from INT to AC.
You could use the spell blending arcana to grab mage armor. I’m not sure if it’s worth it though.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
I originally wanted to put more INT, but not having INT to AC made me lose interest in INT.
Prioritizing your physical stats is a good deal.
For a Dex Magus, you can probably afford a one level dip into Inspired Blade Swashbuckler for Dex-to-DMG
Dex-to-damage requires three levels, though.
at low levels you don't have the spell slots or the duration to keep Mage armor up all day.
It strikes me that you're theory crafting now. In theory you want mage armor up all day, but in practice having it for one or two hours is plenty.
You could use the spell blending arcana to grab mage armor. I’m not sure if it’s worth it though.
For a kensai, definitely. Spending a feat and one spell per day is clearly better than spending a feat and all your swift actions ever. For a regular dex Magus, just wear the chain shirt and you'll be fine.
For a Dex Magus, you can probably afford a one level dip into Inspired Blade Swashbuckler for Dex-to-DMGDex-to-damage requires three levels, though.
No, a one level dip and another feat does it just fine. The problem is that Paizo disapproves of using fencing grace with spell combat of course.