Rules for captured players

[Aswaarg]

My players got captured and I am wondering what rules do I have to apply to them.

Let´s say they captors are competent and have knowleadge about their abilities (The party is a Sorcerer, druid, champion and monk). They will take as much measures as possible to avoid any tricks from the players (they wouldn´t let the prisioners to recover their magic or to cast it).

How they do it? I guess the players aren´t allowed to have a full rest, so they don´t recover spells. But cantrips? The casters need to be restrained and gagged so they aren´t able to cast? What happen to focus points, can the champion pray to his god? And the sorceror recovers his focus point?

Seems hard to keep prisoners in this setting (unless you use some magical powers).

Any tips and suggestions are welcome.

[Nefreet]

I mean, you should probably call missing persons if your players were captured...

[Nefreet]

Jokes aside, this doesn't really sound like a rules question? More like tactics?

Determine the captors' actual competency, and then figure out the weakest and strongest links. The Guard watching the cell is probably the weakest link. The leader of the group is probably the smartest (or otherwise somehow in control).

And find ways to explain that to your players.

[Ubertron_X]

The more interesting issue is how to keep somebody captured for a significant amount of time, especially if that somebody is of higher level than you are.

During our current adventure we managed to subdue and bind a single boss opponent but quickly figured that lacking manacles he will take something in between 2 to 6 seconds (1 to 3 actions) to escape his bonds using either athletics or acrobatics vs our party rangers thievery DC.

[rainzax]

Aswaarg,
Whenever I want to Railroad my players - which, before anyone jumps down my throat, is not always "wrong" dammit - I basically Enlist them to Support me in Telling That Story.

In a word, I Flip it back onto them! And, if our game has built Trust, this has never been a problem.

For example, in your specific case, I would just say "Going around the table: Please describe what Precautions did these Competent Captors take that have so far been Successful in Retaining your Character inside of this Place of Detainment for This amount of Time? Starting with Valeros: Go!"

This allows them to exert narrative control over the situation, while talking about how cool their characters are, while establishing the basis for the story you'd like to tell that session.

Spice with granting a Hero Point for the cleverest / truest / funniest contribution...

Used sparingly!

[Captain Zoom]

Aswaarg wrote:

They will take as much measures as possible to avoid any tricks from the players (they wouldn´t let the prisioners to recover their magic or to cast it).

Any measures?

Cut out their tongues and either smash both hands with a sledgehammer (being sure to break all the bones) or simply cut their hands off at the wrists. And of course, remove all equipment and clothes leaving them naked in separate cells guarded by multiple persons who have no compunction about killing anyone who so much as twitches. And of course, poke out their eyes to make sure none of them can use Glaring Intimidation (RAW do you need to look at someone to use this feat?).

If you need them to talk, substitute a hood and gag with multiple straps and locks in place of cutting out the tongues.

Or you can just take away their equipment, throw them in a cell, maybe manacle them if being extra cautious, and let the players figure out a way to escape. Having an actual guard or guards literally watching over them is optional.

[Aswaarg]

@ Nefreet

That is fine for the narrative moment, when the players are going to figure an escape plan. But they also are going to do rules questions (in fact they did during the end of the last sesion, when I told them that they characters could be captured). They questions were How the spellcasting recovery works if we are imprisoned? And the focus points/spells? And I know the next session they are going to have more questions (manacles, gags, etc).

I can handwave all this things, and tell them the result I want ( for example: you don´t recover spells slots but you can pray to your god to recover a focus point). But my players are a bit rule lawyers and I want to have all the possible rules clear so when they ask them, I can give a proper answer.

@rainzax

That is a cool way of resolving that situation, and I love it. The thing is I know my players will not, they are "less narrative" and more "crunch numbers and roll" so the "burden of the narration" falls into me. Anyway thanx for the tip, will try to use it from time to time in low measures to see if they get used and like it xD

@Captain Zoom

Let´s say there is no permanent harm (because reasons), so no tonge cutting or hand smashing. If it helps, think about it in the other way, measures that a group of characters (heoric type ones, not murder hobos) would take to capture and retain an enemy.

For the measure that you propose (the more restrictive ones), let´s see what would mean regarding rules.

Removing equipment and cloths - This is clear

Isolated cells - Ok, they can´t talk to each other and can´t help each other. Also, I guess the conditions are bad, so they can´t rest properly (no spell slot recovery).

Hood and gag - They have the blind condition and they are ... silenced? muted? No condition in the rules for this that I am aware of.

Straps and locks - I am guessing it would apply Restrained (with a high DC to escape, now I need to figure a good number for them).

Conditions summary: Equipless, Blind, Silenced?, Restrained

Efects summary: They can´t move and can´t use attacks or manipulate actions (other than trying to Escape or Force Open the straps), so no material, somatic or focus components. Being blind they have a -4 to perception (no penalization to Escaping?), being silenced, they can´t speak (so no verbal componets).

Taking my group as example, The sorceror don´t recover spells and can´t use spells, but he regains the focus point (refocus is only a concetrate action, and sorcerors don´t even need to do it). The champion can regain the focus point, but can´t use lay on hands. The druid don´t recover spells and can´t use them, but recovers his focus points. The monk have nothing magical.

[rainzax]

Aswaarg,
Going to give it another shot running this as a Skill Challenge that culminates with an Encounter.

1) GM Prep Work
2) Describe Setup
3) Round Robin Declarations
4) Outcome and Resolution
5) Encounter

Spoiler:

Step One
-Choose the number of "Successes" the party needs to Free Everyone from the Detainment
-Create three or more Thresholds based upon this number above: Low, Medium, and High
-Choose a DC, and Brainstorm a list of Skills that facilitate Escape.
-Consider using different DCs for higher / lower leverage skills
-Brainstorm a couple Negative Consequence for failed Rounds

Step Two
Create a Parapgraph that describes their General Situation, as well as Specific Obstacles that stand in the way of their emancipation. Examples include everything listed above: Removed clothing, isolated cells, hood and gags, straps and locks, etc.

Step Three
Going around the table, each PC must justify how a Skill or other Check they have would help them overcome a Specific Obstacle above. Do not let them roll until everyone is done. This helps encourage teamwork (ex "Valeros looks out while Seoni burns her restraints off). Limit repeats.

Step Four
Everyone rolls their checks together, GM totals their successes. Criticals count double or remove once success, accordingly. If they hit a Threshold, the final Encounter ensues. Otherwise, implement a Negative Consequence for failing the Round and start over. Repeat steps Two through Four until the PCs all Die or start the final Encounter.

Step Five
Run the final Encounter (ex. with the Guards). Depending on which Threshold the PCs got to (based on their cleverness and number of Successes), scale the difficulty of the Encounter accordingly (ex. More or fewer Guards, unable to find their equipment first, etc)

Cheers!

[HumbleGamer]

- A sock in the sorcerer mouth, to prevent him from using verbal components.

- Break arms and legs of all characters ( reducing to 100 % their chances to evade. Since the ones who captured them seems well aware of how magic work, then they should also know magic heals to restore them ).

- If you don't want to break anything, just tie them in a way they wouldn't be able to move anything, and put some guards to watch them. If the don't cooperate, allow yourself to beat them up.

- Finally, make a good use of non lethal damage, by taking the entire party forever unconscious.

[Seisho]

There are some very effective ways here to keep the characters out of the game for a while

but consider also how and when they might get opportunites to get out

also if they are to be kept alive they need to be fed which might be a weak point in the whole process

there are good hints to make it effective, be varefull not to make it too effective for your players

[Ravingdork]

Captain Zoom wrote:

Aswaarg wrote:

They will take as much measures as possible to avoid any tricks from the players (they wouldn´t let the prisioners to recover their magic or to cast it).

Any measures?

Cut out their tongues and either smash both hands with a sledgehammer (being sure to break all the bones) or simply cut their hands off at the wrists. And of course, remove all equipment and clothes leaving them naked in separate cells guarded by multiple persons who have no compunction about killing anyone who so much as twitches. And of course, poke out their eyes to make sure none of them can use Glaring Intimidation (RAW do you need to look at someone to use this feat?).

If you need them to talk, substitute a hood and gag with multiple straps and locks in place of cutting out the tongues.

Or you can just take away their equipment, throw them in a cell, maybe manacle them if being extra cautious, and let the players figure out a way to escape. Having an actual guard or guards literally watching over them is optional.

Removal of eyes, hands, and tongue is an established tactic used by NPCs in at least one published adventure path.

Aswaarg wrote:

Let´s say there is no permanent harm (because reasons), so no tonge cutting or hand smashing. If it helps, think about it in the other way, measures that a group of characters (heoric type ones, not murder hobos) would take to capture and retain an enemy.

You said any measures. Bit o' moving the goal posts, no?

[HumbleGamer]

Ravingdork wrote:

You said any measures. Bit o' moving the goal posts, no?

Yeah, but I think I understand what he means.

In our society they could put a group of person in jail, and the chances they can get out by relying in their skills only are pretty low.

Here in a fantasy game we have to think about magic, supernatural skills and so on.

I suppose that if the citizen were used to magic and supernatural stuff, they could definitely consider to take any needed measure ( harming people would be necessary sometimes ):

- They could forbid prisioners to rest for more than 1 consecutive hour.

- Prisioners could be tied up, blindfolded and gagged.

What about a focus points recovery?
I don't really know.

What I suppose is that the first time stuff like this happens could be different and more fair, but let's be honest... if people in jail continues to break free by using unknown powers, then beating them up and eventually mutilating them, if they are dangerous, could be a possible deal.

Or else it would be something like gotham and arkham Asylum, where named enemies are put in instead of being killed right away ( everytime somebody breaks free people die, so there's no excuse ).

[jdripley]

So magic is cast using some sort of a combination of verbal, somatic and material actions.

A gag would prevent or at least force a tough flat check on verbal components.

Tightly binding the hands ought to prevent somatic components.

Taking away spell component pouches and holy symbols ought to prevent material components.

Not much you can do about casters with meta magic that can bypass some of those action requirements...

Non magic escapes are going to be using skills to slip out of or break bonds. Use DC by level, you know the level of the NPCs who placed the bonds.

Stepping back from the crunch... if you are capturing player characters, you are setting up an escape. So, the story really isn’t about keeping them there, the story is about how they got out, or what they experienced before getting out. Be sure to keep your eye on the ball and don’t get too tied to keeping them imprisoned.

If your players enjoy the hack and slash part of the game, then letting them wreck the place as they make good their escape will probably make them all quite happy!

[Kennethray]

Put em in a comma with some drugs.
There are some that apply things like stupefied as well.