Stargirl

[Buckwell Burrowholm]

I noticed there wasn't a thread for this show, so now there is...and discuss.

[Charles Scholz]

Saw the first episode.
It was okay as far as origin stories go.

Spoiler:

Did not like all the Justice Society being killed off.

One of the differences from the comic is that she starts with the Cosmic Rod instead of the Cosmic Belt. In the comic she acquired the Rod from Jack Knight the son of the original Starman when he retired.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

I'm enjoying it. It's no Doom Patrol or Young Justice but it's still entertaining.

I like the JSA but I'm cool with them dying for this show. I'm just surprised that the Injustice Society had enough firepower to take them out, surprise attack or no.

Side note:
The Norwegian of the Icicle grandparents is better than some stuff I've seen on American TV.

[JoelF847]

I'm enjoying it so far. Very curious why 1) the IJS is based in small town Nebraska, and 2) what other supers exist in this Earth. Is there a batman, superman, etc (there was at least a Flash). If so, that might explain why IJA is hiding in the middle of nowhere to slip under the radar.

[Damon Griffin]

Cast of characters is growing rapidly. Glad to see this week's reveal on the school janitor, Justin.

As much as I'm a fan of the JSA, I hate to say it, but Beth just looks stupid in the original Dr. Mid-Nite costume. I wish there'd been an opportunity for her to update it in some way, though I don't know that Beth Chapel's Dr. Midnight costume from the comics would be a huge improvement.

I'm also not clear on the limitations of these AI goggles. For example, how were they able to project a holographic reconstruction of Solomon Grundy killing Rex Tyler and his wife, when that even was presumably not filmed? Where did the AI get that data?

This sort of thing reminds me of a TV series from 2002-2003: John Doe. Guy wakes up naked on an island off the coast of Washington State. He has no idea who he is of how he got there, but he knows basically everything else. Ask him any question, he can answer it (except, apparently, who he is and where he came from.) At one point in the show they described this as being able to access any database of recorded information...never mind how he does it, or that many databases are standalone, not linked to anything like the Internet.

[JoelF847]

Damon Griffin wrote:

Cast of characters is growing rapidly. Glad to see this week's reveal on the school janitor, Justin.

As much as I'm a fan of the JSA, I hate to say it, but Beth just looks stupid in the original Dr. Mid-Nite costume. I wish there'd been an opportunity for her to update it in some way, though I don't know that Beth Chapel's Dr. Midnight costume from the comics would be a huge improvement.

I'm also not clear on the limitations of these AI goggles. For example, how were they able to project a holographic reconstruction of Solomon Grundy killing Rex Tyler and his wife, when that even was presumably not filmed? Where did the AI get that data?

This sort of thing reminds me of a TV series from 2002-2003: John Doe. Guy wakes up naked on an island off the coast of Washington State. He has no idea who he is of how he got there, but he knows basically everything else. Ask him any question, he can answer it (except, apparently, who he is and where he came from.) At one point in the show they described this as being able to access any database of recorded information...never mind how he does it, or that many databases are standalone, not linked to anything like the Internet.

I sort of assumed the hologram reconstruction was done using machine learning algorithms knowing that the car drove on that route based on GPS and/or satellite tracking (since Hourman was worth tracking), and that Solomon Grundy was presumed to be the cause based on data about the car wreck, and that the ISA was onto them. More like one of the "re-enactments" from a true crime show with actors playing the parts. They don't know EXACTLY what happened, but surmise from what they do know.

[Brian Adams]

Well, that's one question I asked myself two weeks ago answered. They are bringing in the 7 Soldiers of Victory, at least as history and one member who is still around.

[Damon Griffin]

Brian Adams wrote:

Well, that's one question I asked myself two weeks ago answered. They are bringing in the 7 Soldiers of Victory, at least as history and one member who is still around.

Two members still around, though apparently one doesn't remember it yet.

[Brian Adams]

I was specifically referring to the Shining Knight, while leaving out the members shared with the JSA. I hadn't been sure they would bring up the rest of the team when the janitor suddenly manifested a sword a couple of weeks ago, or if they were just going to use him without all of the extra history.

[Thomas Seitz]

I'm pretty sure the Seven will be a part of the show...somehow. Much like they'll need a GL soon.

[Charles Scholz]

Instead of GL, how about his daughter Jade.
Just Jade, I can do without Obsidian.
He was always overbearing and trying to protect Jenny from EVERYTHING!
He was written like he had a sister complex, but it was never stated.

[Brian Adams]

I wouldn't mind Jade. And she would be in the legacy theme.

[Thomas Seitz]

Jade is fine. :)

[Damon Griffin]

Still waiting for the appearance of Mike's friend Jakeem, mentioned only once several episodes back.

[Brian Adams]

I'm pretty sure he's planned to show up, and pick up the most dangerous item in the collection.

[Charles Scholz]

Don't know which is worse: "Say You" or "So Cool".

[Damon Griffin]

Brian Adams wrote:

I'm pretty sure he's planned to show up, and pick up the most dangerous item in the collection.

Clearly. I was just wondering why the delay it seeing him, even if he doesn't claim the pen immediately...does Mike never have his friends over? Jakeem is the only one he's mentioned.

Charles Scholz wrote:

Don't know which is worse: "Say You" or "So Cool".

Both are awful, but neither is as bad as "3X2(9YZ)4A!" But I doubt we'll see Johnny Quick (although the All-Star Squadron has already been referenced: it was mentioned that the Red Bee was a member) and the CW already had "Jesse Quick" (Jesse Chambers Wells) over in Flash, so I wouldn't bet on a next generation speedster, either.

[Brian Adams]

Unless she's operating under her mother's ID.

[JoelF847]

Damon Griffin wrote:

Brian Adams wrote:

I'm pretty sure he's planned to show up, and pick up the most dangerous item in the collection.

Clearly. I was just wondering why the delay it seeing him, even if he doesn't claim the pen immediately...does Mike never have his friends over? Jakeem is the only one he's mentioned.

Mike clearly doesn't think his parents are cool so why would he want to invite his friends over? Much better to hide the uncool square parents and go to friend's houses. Seems pretty normal to me.

[Thomas Seitz]

Look all I know is Jesse Quick in Arrowverse can't start bench pressing cars with Kara... I doubt we'll get another Quick involved. Another Speedster MAYBE...but not another Quick.

[Brian Adams]

Crisis would provide a chance to reboot Jesse, possibly on Stargirl's Earth (the new Earth 2?). It would be interesting to see what happens with a double legacy.

Speaking of double legacies, anyone think the ending tonight was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

[Damon Griffin]

Brian Adams wrote:

Speaking of double legacies, anyone think the ending tonight was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

If you're referring to Junior, I don't.

Spoiler:

My assumption is that Henry instinctively created a telekinetic shield, keeping him from being crushed under the rubble. Dad believes he's so much stronger than his son that he doesn't verify the kill, even telepathically. Not sure where he'll go now that he doesn't have a parent or a home to go back to. Sleep at Pat's garage, maybe.

I think I must have missed something early on regarding Sylvester Pemberton/Sam Kurtis. The pics that Barb was finding online seemed fuzzy, but in her basement she saw at least one good picture of him with Pat in their costumes. I assume Barbara can recognize her own husband. Why can't she point to the picture and say "That may be Starman, but that's not your dad." Does Barb have no pictures of Sam Kurtis? A line cut from the first episode described Courtney's difficulties in trying to locate her father under his given name, Sam Kurtis, and how she couldn't find a picture or any information about him on-line.

It shouldn't be a "Clark Kent's glasses" thing; Cindy recognized Courtney despite the mask.

[Brian Adams]

With one possible exception, I am inclined to agree with you on Junior.

Spoiler:

He may have been able to resist his father's telepathic check, though he would know that he would have to make the others believe he was dead, since they lack his defenses. That blocking a telepathic scan might have been shown in an earlier scene.

Could anyone make out the header on the email that Mom got after performing the galaxy's stupidest web search on a company computer?

[Charles Scholz]

Courtney's dad in the comics:

In the comics Sam is an absentee father who Courtney loved, until he conned her of a family keepsake.
It was then revealed he was a con man.
Courtney eventually sent him to jail after catching him as a henchman with the Royal Flush Gang.

[JoelF847]

Spoiler:

It seems like her dad is in some way a con man, since his entire death seems to be a lie. Now that they've mentioned Starman's sister though, makes me wonder if Courtney's dad was a brother to Starman, and the staff picked up on her family connection/dna, but she got it wrong and Starman is her uncle, not her father. That would go a long way to explain Mom not recognizing the pictures, though maybe she saw a family resemblance.

[Charles Scholz]

Spoiler:

Starman's sister is named Merry. She was Brainwave Jr.'s mother.

[Thomas Seitz]

I'm still waiting for old school Flash and GL to show up...

[Charles Scholz]

Agreed.
Makes me wonder about the Stargirl timeline.
Is it set in 2020, or late 1980's or early 1990's.
If it is 2020, that means most of the JSA were in their 80's and 90's when they were killed.
That is assuming they fought in WWII and it happened in the 1940's.

Don't remember exact circumstance, but in the comics the JSA received some sort of revitalizing magic that slowed their aging and kept their powers at peak performance well into their 70's.

[Brian Adams]

This isn't a 'fought in WWII' JSA setting. Best guess, the JSA in the rebooted Arrowverse was active in the mid-80s to early 21st century, with Stargirl being contemporary with the main Arrowverse. Pre-Crisis, there was a JSA in Earth-1 active during the WWII Era (but including a Stargirl/Merlin) seen first in LoT s2E2.

[Legendarius]

I wouldn't mind them doing some crossover with the rest of the Arrowverse at some point. I'd assume at least Stargirl herself would end up in whatever they do late in 2020 (assuming COVID doesn't delay crossover plans).

[Greylurker]

So Season 2 of Stargirl has come to an end and I have to say it was a lot of fun and I think a fair bit better than season 1.

Loved the Shade in particular, glad he is sticking around

Season 3 looks like it is going to be interesting with the Crocks moving in next door and Cindy wanting to turn over a new leaf.

[Thomas Seitz]

I just enjoyed the fact Eclispo was an actual threat other than some random guy that used clones.

[Greylurker]

They did do a pretty good job with him. Including bringing in a LOT of extra help to bring him down. Liked that Rick brought Grundy into the fight, even if the Big Dead Guy didn't last too long.

and is it weird that I really like the Crocks. They are this high energy, supportive evil family and it's great. Artemis knowing they are supervillains, has only brought them closer together as a family.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

I've enjoyed Stargirl so far. Not quite sure what I think about so many of the old JSA still being alive even when they were supposed to be dead, though in Dr. Midnight's case it makes some sense. I really like what they did with the Shade. and the Crocks are fun. I do wonder how they are going to get around the adults being escaped convicts who still live in the same town they Did Stuff in.

[Thomas Seitz]

Bjorn,

I didn't think there were that many JSA alive considering you just had OG Doctor Midnight and OG Star Spangled Kid aka Starman.

[JoelF847]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Bjorn,

I didn't think there were that many JSA alive considering you just had OG Doctor Midnight and OG Star Spangled Kid aka Starman.

It's also unclear if JSA flash is still alive, since they're using the same actor as they use in the Flash, suggesting that this is on Earth-1 possibly, where we know he's alive. I'm guessing that it's actually not on Earth-1 though, but they're just using the same actor.

[Greylurker]

Stargirl earth is supposedly Earth-2 in the Arrow-multiverse.

[Thomas Seitz]

I thought this was Earth-2 and Barry's Jay was on Earth-3...

[JoelF847]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

I thought this was Earth-2 and Barry's Jay was on Earth-3...

At the end of Crisis, it was shown to be Earth-2, but in series there's really no indication one way or another. So, I guess it's Earth-2, but using the same actor for OG Flash just makes it a tad confusing.

And the original The Flash Jay was from Earth-3 pre-crisis, but post crisis, with the original set of Earths used in the Arrowverse getting merged, Jay is in the new merged Earth-1, and was in multiple episodes of the most recent season of the Flash.

[Thomas Seitz]

He is on Earth-1?? I thought he was on another Earth honestly....

[dirtypool]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

He is on Earth-1?? I thought he was on another Earth honestly....

At the end of Crisis Jay Garrick’s status wasn’t explained. The next time we saw him was at the end of last season on The Flash when he regained his speed and joined the fight against Godspeed.

They’ve played fast and loose with everyone’s memory of Crisis so I wouldn’t expect it to be as cemented as the comics version was, and every indication from the production team has been that John Wesley Shipp is playing the same character on both shows.

Maybe the reorganization of worlds post crisis made it so he was from Earth 2 and not Earth 3

[Thomas Seitz]

Maybe...I dunno. Regardless we'll see if Stargirl does any crossovers in like season 4 maybe?

[dirtypool]

If they plan to do it, I doubt they’d wait another year.

[JoelF847]

They're still not doing too much crossovers between shows in production due to Covid safety protocols. That's why the Flash 5-part event is pulling characters from shows which have finished (plus Batwoman, so one exception).

Another thought about Jay is that post crisis, he knows how to cross to alternate earths, and hasn't told the main team Flash yet - he has a bit of secretiveness for some of the big powers - maybe it's something he doesn't want to share for reasons yet to be revealed.

[dirtypool]

They’re not doing a traditional multi night multi show cross over, but Stargirl’s production is offset from the rest of the CW with I believe a February start, and given the pre production pace of CW shows - a single show cross over with the Flash could easily work itself out as COVID production impacts lessen.

For example the Supergirl Season 1/Flash Season 2 crossover didn’t come together until after the two shows returned from the mid season hiatus, same with the musical episode.

An even simpler crossover with Jay and maybe one other Flash cast member, maybe not even Grant, crossing to Stargirl would be incredibly easy to pull off at this point. Tonally it would make sense for it to be Jordan Fischer’s Bart to meet Courtney and the rest of the JSA than it would for them to meet Barry.

I’m more saying that if they want to connect the two earths together through Jay Garrick and The Flash, I don’t expect they would need to wait until Season 4 to do it, when there is still room in the back part of Season 3.

[Thomas Seitz]

Eh...I just dunno if that's in the cards, dirtypool. Mostly because we don't know what the writers and/or executives want to do with this show and/or crossovers.

[dirtypool]

We have as much information to speculate it would happen in Season 3 as we do that it would happen In Season 4.

We do know however that the writers and executives referred to the episode with John Wesley Shipp as a crossover with The Flash as early as last spring when they announced it in the trades.

[Goth Guru]

Bringing back Grundy would be a crossover with Batwoman.

[Thomas Seitz]

Only if it crosses Earths...