Cantrips, NPCs and the world.

[PossibleCabbage]

James Jacobs wrote:

I'd argue that even in an RPG that takes great pains to make sure that the PCs are "just normal folks" that the PCs are still special. That's got nothing to do with mechanics, and everything to do with the fact that those characters are played by players, not the GM.

This has always been my perspective. As the GM, every single being in the universe behaves precisely how I want them to with the exception of 3-6 individuals. Those people are incredibly special just because of that. Even the gods do what the GM wants, but the player characters rarely do.

Just because something is possible in the rules does not mean that an NPC has decided to do it. My favorite example of this is how in 1st edition a 13th level kinetic chirugeon can cure blindness in one round, at no cost to themselves (the target takes the burn and is instructed to go get some sleep), all day long. If such a person existed with sufficient magnanimity, almost nobody would need to be blind if they didn't want to be. But I'm not going to, as a GM, just insert that character in the setting just for the sake of "revolutionizing health care in Golarion".

[Staffan Johansson]

James Jacobs wrote:

The vast majority of the NPCs in the world don't have magic, and thus can't use cantrips. Just because it's an automatic option for PCs if they make specific choices during character creation isn't meant to imply that cantrip casting NPCs are as widespread as farmers, bakers, town guards, merchants, and the rest of the world. Magic is meant to be magic in Golarion, not everyday normal. Feel free to adjust that norm in your game as you wish, of course.

I sort of agree and sort of disagree with this.

Yes, PC rules are for PCs. Just because there's an elf ancestral feat that lets you learn and cast an arcane cantrip it doesn't mean that any elf can learn that. Any elf PC, yes, but not any elf in general.

But the feats are not completely disassociated from the game world. Having that feat available does indicate that minor arcane magic is a much more common among elves than among humans. Just like the Elf Weapon Familiarity feat indicates that elven troops probably favor swords and bows over spears and crossbows. It's not a thing every elf does, but it's common enough to be noticeably different from human society. If, as someone suggested, 5% of humans can cast spells, maybe that's more like 10% or 15% of elves.

[James Jacobs]

Having a feat available for a PC indicates that it's a potential option, one of many, a GM can use to build NPCs. In 2nd edition, the GM gets much more control over the non PC characters of the setting. The rules in the Core Rulebook are not meant to be a baseline for NPCs; they're a baseline for PCs, and can be used as a starting place for GMs to set the baseline for NPCs in their setting.

In Golarion, the setting we assume is what's being used for all of our Pathfinder publications, those assumptions are on display in our adventures and Lost Omens books. Magic remains magical in Golarion; it's not something every NPC gets access to. There's a 5% of the whole can use magic number floating around upthread, I'd say that percentage is even lower, but generally don't trouble myself with trying to stick with those numbers.

For my best take on how many folks in a small town would have access to magic, check out Sandpoint. It remains as-is in the softcover book we published a few years ago for 1st edition or 2nd edition as far as NPCs who have magic available. There's around 1,200 folks in that town, and of them all, only a few dozen have magic at their beck and call. In that case, the percentage is closer to .5% rather than 5%.

(The whole point being that the PCs and their enemies and significant allies should stand out from the rest of the world.)

[AnimatedPaper]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Even the gods do what the GM wants, but the player characters rarely do.

Ain’t THAT the truth.

[Staffan Johansson]

Zapp wrote:

This is a pet peeve of mine.

Games where people can cause fire or acid damage every round all day long just don't work.

No prison can hold you. No thieves guild can ever be pinned down by dead bodies, because they're all dissolved.

Just to mention two cases.

This assumes that cantrip casting is perfectly unlimited. The way I see it, it's not. You might not be limited by spell slots, but casting a cantrip is still work. It should be about as much work casting produce flame as it is hitting something with an axe. Or probably more, given that the spell takes two actions and a Strike takes one. The Exploration rules bear this out by saying that in order to avoid being fatigued by repeated casting, it's something you only do when you believe there's an imminent need for the spell.

[SOLDIER-1st]

While we’re on this subject, I’ll once again pitch my idea for a book. Lost Omens: Demographics and Statistics.

I would love to see the distribution of level and casting tradition by country or ancestry or even meta-region. I would love census data and polling information.

I know that book is highly unlikely to ever be made (I believe that James has specifically said he is not in favor of doing that in order to give gms the freedom to work in the world as they see fit), and it would be difficult to make it reasonable and consistent, but I at least would eat that up.

[lemeres]

Zapp wrote:

This is a pet peeve of mine.

Games where people can cause fire or acid damage every round all day long just don't work.

No prison can hold you. No thieves guild can ever be pinned down by dead bodies, because they're all dissolved.

Just to mention two cases.

I sympathize with wizards having to fight with daggers and crossbows, but unlimited energy damage is not the solution.

In pf1e, trifler was my favorite trait for assassins. Prestidigitation only covered the minor details... but minor details are essential for covering up crimes.

- clean up blood
- soil blood on others/their weapons.
- mess with the temperature of small non living objects. Such as severed fingers. A warm finger makes people think the murder just happened.
- change taste. To cover less subtle poisons.
- change color. nice for a quick disguise.
Three hours of this a day was more than enough for the big jobs. Even the simplest magics can do a LOT.

James Jacobs wrote:

I'd argue that even in an RPG that takes great pains to make sure that the PCs are "just normal folks" that the PCs are still special. That's got nothing to do with mechanics, and everything to do with the fact that those characters are played by players, not the GM.

Players are a weird breed. They gleefully fling themselves into highly hazardous situations. They can live off of the nastiest food without any complaints. They never go to the bathroom. They all group up in the same inn room to sleep, "in case assassins attack"

Even though they have no reason to believe they would get attacked....I mean, they are right, but they didn't have any reason to believe that.