Brainstorming a "simple" class idea.


Homebrew and House Rules


I have an idea for a base class that seems pretty simple, but I simultaneously wonder if it is too strong or too weak. And I can't think of a name for the thing, that I like.
------------
This was the basic idea, but seemed a little too dry. So, I also added the Stat Alternative system below.
------------

Hit Die: d8
Starting Wealth: 3d6 x 10 gp (average 105 gp).
Class Skills: (All skills that can normally be used completely untrained.)
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier
BAB: 3/4 progression
Saves: All slow progression
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The class is proficient with all simple weapons, plus one martial weapon chosen when taking the class. The class is also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Stat Progression: At first level, and every level thereafter, the class increases all of its ability scores by 1 point.


------------
Above was the basic idea, but seemed a little too dry. So, I also added this Stat Alternative system. Not sure if I like it or not and it could almost certainly use a lot of work.
------------

Stat Alternative: When increasing a score with Stat Progression, the class may instead choose to forgo an increase to an ability score to gain an ability related to that score. (This could use a lot of input, if anyone has ideas. Alternatives should be thematically tied to the ability score. No alternative should generally be "better" than the stat point that is given up, but may be very slightly more focused.)

Strength Alternatives:
* Gain proficiency in one martial melee weapon of your choice. At 5th level you may instead choose an exotic melee weapon
* Gain proficiency in one type of armor or shield.
* +1 to CMB and CMD

Dexterity Alternatives:
* Gain proficiency in one martial ranged weapon of your choice. At 5th level you may instead choose an exotic ranged weapon
* +1 to Initiative
* +5 movement speed.
* Increase total Maximum Dex Bonus of Armor worn by 1.

Constitution Alternatives:
* Reduce your total armor check penalty by 1, to a maximum armor check penalty of 0.
* Increase energy resistance by 1 for an element. If the character does not already have energy resistance, they are treated as having a base energy resistance of 0 for this option.

Intelligence Alternative:
* Choose a skill. You are now considered trained in this skill.
* Gain skill focus, weapon focus or armor focus as a bonus feat.

Wisdom Alternative:
* Reduce duration of negative mind-effecting effects. For each time this alternative is chosen, you may lower your duration for the effect based on how long the effect lasts. So, if you took this option 3 times, and were afflicted with an ability that lasts rounds per level, then it would reduce the duration by 3 rounds. Of if the affliction was based on 10 min./level, then the duration would be reduced by up to 30 minutes. If the mind-effecting effect has a duration not based on level, the duration is simply reduced by 1 minute per time you've taken this ability.

Charisma Alternative:
* Increase healing received by 1. Does not increase static sources such as fast healing and regeneration.


Well if you have the time and can read through Excel files:
Here is a few ideas that can be used if you are making your own to fit your campaign. The look at the CharCtrete file Here

Note, I would only use it for Ideas, as the actual characters will not fit the most peoples’ ideas as a campaign model. They are to far pushed to a game to more resemble a PC game then a RPG.

So the first question is the DEX one is the +5 movement going to have a maximum upper limit, around a 45ft movement rate they will be moving at 15+ MPH.
The next question would be why not use the class to explore feats, as many of the things you are thinking about are covered by Feats.

Want you to look thing over and think about the feats before I start this journey with you as it will take a long time to develop and balance. I do enjoy this type of stuff so I don't mind looking at things with you


Oh, a few more question is the are you looking to just build a list for each score that they can pick from instead of using the point?
Will you allow a full on mega build if they chose it instead of the points all together?


The default assumption was just stacking ability points, so +20 to all stats at level 20. The idea was to make a character who was "super", without being overpowered for the level. I thought it'd also be a nice dip for a character who needs just a few more stat points to qualify for a feat or other option, and it'd be simple to play while having a lot of narrative options. It occurred to me though, that some people really like to have a couple of low stats for character concepts, so I thought there should be some alternatives for each stat.

I'm not stuck to any of my suggestions, but I did think the speed increase option might stack all the way to +100ft at level 20. This doesn't seem that crazy to me, since you are giving up +10 to Reflex, Initiative, multiple skills and possibly AC to get it. The character is meant to surpass human limits, while not exceeding what the average character of a given level can accomplish with their own class abilities and options.

The class also has a slight quadratic quality, since it starts weaker than most martial classes, but by level 20 is slightly overall stronger than most martial classes.


Super Human would be one word for it all right.

Be ready for some arguments on the case with these Ability Scores why can I not travel at a speed of 50 in armor?

So you might want to limit the upper end of things as a list of maximums, and it can be race specific. At least t will force some choices on character they are looking for. It will really complicate things though as you will have a list per Attribute Score, and for each race. It would make people have to prioritize what they want the character to be.

A Dwarf no matter what their status will never be as fast as a Elf with e same stats, etc.

At least as a thought


I don’t see why I would need set differences for each race. Maybe I’m missing something but the speed isn’t that impressive compared to something like a simple fly spell. It’d be good for overland movement, but you’re probably not leaving the party behind anyway. The dwarf would be faster in armor than the elf, but if they take the armor off, the elf is still faster. That seems appropriate to me.

Honestly, I can’t imagine most elves taking that option, anyway. Stacking dexterity feels much more elf-like to me.


The object is two things:
as you add things under the Attribute Scores alternate selection to a point will need limits on the list.

Making race limits is the easiest way. Can a dwarf be as dexterous as a elf?
With what you currently are doing they can be more so just because they rolled better. If they both build the character the exact same way, then the higher score wins. A Limit of Dex for a Dwarf to 30 is a way to prevent it and is still high enough.

Is a elf a match for a Half-Orc in strength?
Should there be a built in Race limit to the Points?

I would go this a Maximum point table for race, but not limit the Selections under the Attribute points alternatives. The limits for the Alts should all be as small as possible +1 or for combat and all saves with maybe a +2 for a skill or a single save (poison). You will also have to decide is a more general alts will be available ones that fall outside of a Attribute, like night vision.


Last one for the night:
Will you allow multiple points be used to make a alternate selection?
STR + DEX + CON to get a DR or a BAB for example


Limits on ability scores based on race makes no sense.

A half-orc can have a Str of 9. An elf can have Dex of 13 and a Dwarf can have a Dex of 15 and also be a lvl9 monk with Fleet and Run.

Elves *tend* to be agile and intelligent and frail. Dwarves *tend* to be tough and wise and gruff. But a -2/+2 does not mean you're automatically worse/better than someone without that modifier.


I think giving a character +1 to every stat every level is too much. Especially when you look at the other bonuses that are possible and the player can choose to not advanced any stats and pick up 6 special abilities that are at least as good as a trait and some as good as a feat every level. That is better than a fighter at gaining feats.

My suggestion would be to reverse things a bit. Each level pick two stats, gain +1 to each stats and a special ability for that stat. You can't have more bonus points in a stat than 1/2 your class level. So if you were at 10th level, you would have a total of 20 bonus points, with no more than +5 in any one stat.

For a class name, how about Demigod? Godling? (Divine) Spark?

General idea is that special abilities you are allowed to choose go along with your stats, and as your class bonus + class level increase the special abilities you can pick get more powerful.

Like the 1-8 abilities are about the equivalent of a trait. The 9-15 abilities are about equivalent to the strong feats. 16+ are about equivalent of a constant 3rd-4th level spell.


I'd ask what the description or justification for this class is. What is it doing that has this character develop in odd ways, different from any other class, with no obvious focus?


I would call it the Unrestricted Class

At any rate what limitation have you thought about?
Staying with the 6 points and opting out a point to gain a feat or alt.

You going to allow multiple points to be used to gain stronger items?
If so how about all to take a feature from another class that is 1/2 your level or lower.

Meirrill had a few interesting thoughts and I agree you will end up in the over powered side pretty quick as well.

It is also why I suggested a Maximum Attribute point, doing by race just adds a reason to making different choices. Yes, I know the games list minimums, and they should not be necessary either for the same reasons everyone balks at Maximums. The other reason I suggested it is after about 12th level you basically will not be missing anymore based on standard progression of ability increases.


I can imagine someone starting as a normal martial class and dipping this just to get the stat bumps, though it's still pretty weak. Otherwise it sounds dull as all heck.


The ultimate Gestalt class!

(Well maybe not "ultimate", but I can certainly think of a few who'd like it)


I'd call the class "Jack", because this is a perfect "jack of all trades, master of none" example. Good defense (AC, HP, and saves), good with skills, but weak offense, no (build in) way to handle magical challenges (e.g. invisible enemies), and nothing that competes with helpful spells.

Honestly, offense capabilities are lame. No magical abilities means you have to be a pure martial, but the class supports that surprisingly little. All the higher strength and/or dex does is improve attack and damage rolls, but it doesn't do that any better then, say, a Fighter (minding BAB). Zero (helpful) bonus feats also means that archery takes forever to get going. Maybe there're some Stunning Fist style feats that make a working build, but otherwise, I don't really see much potential or variety.

In practise, absolutely no one would play this single-classed, of course, but that doesn't really make things better.

You could also call it "Blurred", because it puts absolutly no focus on anything...

MrCharisma wrote:
The ultimate Gestalt class!

Ultimate Gestalt class for a full caster, at least. Normally, you want full BAB, d10/d12 HD, and three good saves, to broaden out your full caster. But even on a d6 HD class, gestalting with Jack would produce better HP than gestalting with a d10 class at 6th+ level (and better than a d12 at 8th+ level), while Jack-boosted weak saves are on par at 6th level (and better at 9th+). The +1 to DCs every other level is probably better than anything you can got from another class. A Jack/full caster gestalt exactly sidesteps Jack's main issue, namely that you have not enough that scales with the increased ability scores.

Meirril wrote:
That is better than a fighter at gaining feats.

Yeah, but what kind of feats? Multiples of Fleet, Skill Focus, etc. don't notably improve the character.


The class wasn't supposed to be the "best" at combat, but competent. The only thing I was really concerned about being overpowered was how good the class is at skills. You basically get half level to all skills and an increasing number of skill ranks as you level. I even considered having the class start with 0+Int skills and no class skills.

Reading the comments, I'm leaning towards an idea of increasing 4 stats by two every odd level and then giving some minor class features every even level.


That just makes a one-level dip better. But the loss of BAB, saves, skills, class features and FCB compared to sticking with the normal class doesn't make it worthwhile.


Melkiador wrote:


Reading the comments, I'm leaning towards an idea of increasing 4 stats by two every odd level and then giving some minor class features every even level.

That just make the class dip-bait. If you want it to avoid that, make the stat increased on even levels. Or split the difference and make it a constant stat gain.

An alternative scheme would be to give +1 to a single stat each level, and a list of special abilities that could be selected that aren't limited by a stat increase. Then give an extra +1 to all stats every N levels. So the character slowly gets better at everything and one stat really stands out.

You could also take a hint from Barbarian and have special abilities that require prerequisites to select. So for instance you could have Flight, but it requires you have Super Leap, Leap and Soft Fall before you select it, with 2 more improvements (Fast Flight, Agile Flight). Some improvements should be selectable multiple times and stack freely. If you are worried about how high then set a cap of how many times a power can be selected.


Is this strictly going to be a martial class? How about losing some INT or something else/more, for the possibility to start gaining spell slots/spells.

I think allowing this class to scale to 6th level spells by late game isn't too bad.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Brainstorming a "simple" class idea. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.