Constructs not listing required caster level in construction?

[TheWhiteRaven]

So I've noticed that some constructs do not have a listed line in their construction requirements that tells you that you need to meet a certain caster level to make them. I'm wondering if this is in error, or if they actually intend for the construct to be created without needing a certain caster level.

In most situations, a crafter would need to be at least 5th level for Craft Construct due it the feat requiring caster level 5th. However, the Promethean Alchemist archetype gets Craft Construct for free at 1st level. Does this mean that (assuming all other DC's and requirements can be met) a 1st level Promethean Alchemist can make any construct that does not have a listed caster level in it's construction requirements?

Example 1; Ioun Wyrd
CL 5th; Price 1,500 gp plus ioun stone
Construction
Requirements Craft Construct, animate object, lesser geas; Skill Knowledge (arcana) DC 15; Cost 1,000 gp plus ioun stone

Here it lists the caster level of the item as 5th, however in the actual Construction Requirements entry it does not mention a caster level. So, if a 1st level Promethean Alchemist was able to get their Craft: Alchemy (promethean disciple replaces all checks with Alchemy) to make a DC 15 (not all that hard, even at level one), get the money and materials and 'buy' a casting of animate object and lesser geas, could they make an Ioun Wyrd at level 1?

There are more examples of this, many being in the lower levels but a few are a bit more egregious.

Iron Cobra
Poppet, Tiny and Small
Homunculus

These all list a caster level like the Ioun Wyrd, but do not have a caster level requirement in the construction section. However they are all relatively low level, and the Promethean Alchemist in fact gets a homunculus as part of their standard class abilities.

However, there are some that are considerably more powerful

Iron Sentinel, CR 5
CL 14th; Price 28,000 gp
Construction Requirements
Craft Construct, alarm, cone of cold, detect magic, geas/quest, limited wish; Skill Craft (sculpture) DC 22; Cost 14,000 gp

Sentinel Hut, CR 8
CL 10th; Price 33,000 gp
Construction Requirements
Craft Construct, animate object, cat’s grace, confusion, geas/quest, jump, minor creation; Skill Craft (sculptures) DC 18; Cost 18,000 gp

Set Guardian, CR 13(!!)
CL 17th; Price 184,000 gp
Construction Requirements
Craft Construct, blasphemy, geas/quest, miracle; Skill Heal DC 20 and Craft (armor) or Craft (blacksmithing) DC 22; Cost 90,000 gp.

Now granted, these are from Adventure Paths, so aren't exactly to be considered "standard" constructs that could be made such as regular golems and homunculi, but they DO have a listed construction section that leaves out a caster level requirement. Assuming the character is able to get their skill check DC's high enough and get enough money, by the rules it is physically possible for a 1st level Promethean Alchemist to make a CR 13 Set Guardian.

A hesitant solution is to use the listed Caster level of the item as a basis for what the caster level req should be, for many golems it is the same like Flesh (8th) and Iron (16th). However, there are even some basic golems where that doesn't hold true such as with the Blood Golem (caster level of 7, but requires caster level of 12, a considerable difference).

So, what's the deal? Do these constructs not require a caster level, and thus can be made as long as one has the feat and fulfills the other requirements? Are these errors in the entries and should be corrected? I've looked around and not found any answers, hope others can help solve my little issue!

[avr]

A caster level requirement is just another +5 DC if you don't have it, so if you can cheese your skills to the moon and back, get enough money to buy and staff your own castle and take a few months off then yes your 1st level alchemist can make any construct. Any construct.

[TheWhiteRaven]

avr wrote:

A caster level requirement is just another +5 DC if you don't have it, so if you can cheese your skills to the moon and back, get enough money to buy and staff your own castle and take a few months off then yes your 1st level alchemist can make any construct. Any construct.

Sadly the caster level is one of two things you can't cheese out of.

Caster Level: Some constructs, especially the more powerful ones, require the creator to be of a certain caster level in order to craft them. Unlike some other crafting requirements, this requirement must be met in order to craft the construct, and cannot be ignored simply by increasing the DC of the skill check to craft the construct by 5.

As that does make mention of how "especially the more powerful ones" it does create precedent that they made some without a caster level listed, I was simply finding it hard to swallow for some of the more powerful ones such as the CR 8 and CR 13

[avr]

Oh yeah, constructs do have an exception there. Still, the Set guardian requires you to embalm the corpse of a recently deceased evil desert giant, which may be hard to arrange and may require specialised knowledge that you don't have. A sentinel hut 'must be made of the wood from a tree grown in Irrisen’s eternal winter (an extraordinarily rare commodity)' which may likewise be hard to arrange without a cooperative GM, and is a pretty weak CR 8 anyway.

[Diego Rossi]

avr wrote:

Oh yeah, constructs do have an exception there. Still, the Set guardian requires you to embalm the corpse of a recently deceased evil desert giant, which may be hard to arrange and may require specialised knowledge that you don't have. A sentinel hut 'must be made of the wood from a tree grown in Irrisen’s eternal winter (an extraordinarily rare commodity)' which may likewise be hard to arrange without a cooperative GM, and is a pretty weak CR 8 anyway.

Probably because they are meant to be regional things, not something that is available everywhere.

If you are an Irrisen white witch probably the sentinel hut requirement isn't so hard and if you live in the appropriate desertic region finding a desert giant and killing it isn't impossible, but making a sentinel hut in the desertic region is and should be difficult. Naturally your GM can say that in the desertic area you can make a slightly different hut with salt taken from a dead lake or some other appropriate thing.

[Lelomenia]

For the constructs, normally the feat requires CL 5, so putting a CL at 5 or below is either (A) redundant or (B) harmful, where a class feature is intended to bypass that prereq, but the prereq bypassing is made pointless by redundant prereqs anyway.

Certainly that applies for the low CR constructs. For the higher CR, they probably didnt intend for that inconsistency with hardcover constructs, but at the same time it’s a non issue. Craft limitations in Pathfinder are based on money, that’s why low level weapon crafters (Forge Priests get it at 3rd, maybe someone else gets it earlier) don’t cast infinite Wishes off Luck Blades. I would just go by RAW here, as there isnt a reason not to. The only place it really matters is for the low-level Promethean, who i believe should be able to use his Craft Construct starting when he gets it if opportunity arises.

[Melkiador]

Quote:

Caster Level: Some constructs... require the creator to be of a certain caster level

This implies that some do not.

[Shinoskay]

There are a few ways to get bonuses to both raw caster level and to count as a higher caster level under certain conditions.

Conservatively, I would say one can have caster level 5 at 3rd level.
With friends, you can probably get it by first or second level.

as for item caster level listed.
Unfortunately, often times, as the general blanket is pressed and pushed through into niche or nuanced specifics... you start finding anomalies and issues.
To my understanding, you will need to have the caster level listed for the item to craft it. This isnt a 100 percent rule though as, again, some exceptions probably exist for this as well.

Craft poppet, these are small constructs that can be crafted at level 1. That is there intent and in some terms this is what the rules tell us. Some people could interpret all constructs and golems require minimum caster level 5 but craft poppet is a level 1 feat that (ANYONE can take it at level 1) gives hd 1, weak, cheap, level 1 grade constructs. The clear intent for them is level 1.