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I had thought Gods and Magic would be a nearly complete listing of the Gods and their magic for 2e. So I was surprised that nowhere that I can see does it include the 5 pages of info from the core rulebook listing their Devotee benefits. From pg 52 on it does list that info for the lesser known gods, but for the main 20 you have to continually refer back to the Core Rulebook.
Why is this? You could have included it in the God's stat block, same as you did for the other Gods. Or, if there was not enough room, you could have put it under the Aphorisms in the side-bar. It just seems to be a big oversight as you include a line for "Alternate Domains", but not the regular ones.
While I normally am opposed to repeating info from 1 book to another, if you are creating a "This is your 1-stop book for Gods and religions in PF2e", and it only repeats 5 pages from the CRB, I would say include it to remove the need for flipping between 2 books to get the info necessary to use the Deity for most characters.
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The short answer here is, page count counts. Paizo has to pay for every page printed, and so do the customers (us).
Paizo probably decided that they didn't see a large benefit in including redundant information in the book.
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The short answer here is, page count counts. Paizo has to pay for every page printed, and so do the customers (us).
Paizo probably decided that they didn't see a large benefit in including redundant information in the book.
This: if I'm looking for a "This is your 1-stop book for Gods and religions in PF2e" I'll look them up online using the official site, archives of nethys. For instance, look here at Abadar. It's got exactly what you where looking for and without you needing to pay for anything being reprinted. No flipping needed! ;)
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This: if I'm looking for a "This is your 1-stop book for Gods and religions in PF2e" I'll look them up online using the official site, archives of nethys. For instance, look here at Abadar. It's got exactly what you where looking for and without you needing to pay for anything being reprinted. No flipping needed! ;)The short answer here is, page count counts. Paizo has to pay for every page printed, and so do the customers (us).
Paizo probably decided that they didn't see a large benefit in including redundant information in the book.
So the answer is to just stop buying the PF2e books and rely upon Nethys? Not sure that's what Paizo really wants, but I could just do that...
And, as I mentioned, in most cases there is room under the Aphorisms in the sidebars (or room can be made by shrinking the picture above them), and they were able to manage it all in the stat blocks for all the non-core deities. And it doesn't need to repeat the entire section, just the PC's/Devotee data...
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The answer is to not get upset when they don't reprint content. Which seems a weird thing to be upset about for me. I mean, you need to reference the core rulebook as well as Gods and Magic to create every character anyway, so it's not like you're adding an extra book somehow.
So the answer is to just stop buying the PF2e books and rely upon Nethys?
I mean it you absolutely, 100% can't stand the fact that you might possibly sometimes have to swap book, then I guess that's what you have to do. Myself I NEVER buy the physical books even though I prefer to read them that way as the physical books don't get physically updated with errata the way a PDF does.
And, as I mentioned, in most cases there is room
There are a LOT of things I want to see in the books and reprinting stuff doesn't even rank on that list. As such, we have competing wants from the book. IMO, if they could free up some more space, that sounds like a good reason to find some NEW stuff to print as I KNOW that it'll get collected together in a nice to reference site on the internet but that same site isn't going to be printing new, original material.
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I would have really preferred that they had just given us complete info blocks, instead of having to cross-reference between multiple books.
Yes, I can cross-reference or use Nethys. But asking me as a consumer what kind of product I would have liked? I would have liked the product that's a bit more convenient.
I would have really preferred that they had just given us complete info blocks, instead of having to cross-reference between multiple books.
Yes, I can cross-reference or use Nethys. But asking me as a consumer what kind of product I would have liked? I would have liked the product that's a bit more convenient.
Sure, I get that. And I think that's what AoN is for.
I buy books/PDFs to support Paizo because I want them to stay in business. But most frequently I use the free online resources.
Honestly, I look at it almost as I'm donating to the company to keep them in business to produce content I like, not about having an actual physical (or even digital) copy of that content since it appears online for free.
I would have liked the product that's a bit more convenient.
I think you just have to except that physical game books just aren't that. I mean, what good is a first edition of PF1's Advanced Class Guide? A paperweight?
But lets look at the PF2 books: you want to play a cleric you're looking at spells from both books or an online site. Same with feats. Same for domains. Same for backgrounds. Same with weapons. Same with equipment... So I really can't see the added convenience there is from a VERY slight saving on page flipping here when you're already doing a LOT of it already.
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It's sort of amusing to read this thread when I remember pretty severe outrage when a later PF1 hardcover ended up consolidating a bunch of items from softcover books, because it was deemed wasted page space to reprint stuff that already exists.
It's sort of amusing to read this thread when I remember pretty severe outrage when a later PF1 hardcover ended up consolidating a bunch of items from softcover books, because it was deemed wasted page space to reprint stuff that already exists.
I remember it as severe disappointment but I'll chock it up to perspective. I know it significantly dropped my interest in it as it's value was greatly diminished [IMO] by doing that.
Now I think it would be ok to do a book of reprints as long as it's advertised as such, though I question how many people would need such a thing when the online sites exist.
Depends on what's being reprinted I suppose. IIRC, this was the Adventurer's Guide, right? And a lot of it was reprints from the monthly splat books that basically never get errata, so there actually was genuine utility in moving those to a hardcover.
In the case of this thread, reprinting that info would be a lot harder to justify. Although I'm not personally swayed by the AoN argument. I just don't particularly like using it, or, really, going online at all if I can get an alternative offline (even if I go online to get it, like downloading a PDF or an App).
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I also noticed this and was kinda annoyed. Gods & Magic is a cool book, but this really was like 3-4 additional lines for the core deities. Gods & Magic is kinda unusable on it's own.
As said, might as well just go to Nethys every time, the only place where you can find all the info for playing a Cleric of the Main 20.
Inner Sea Gods (PF1) is one of the best books ever, and it has everything. Even just having some table summarizing all would be cool.
Maybe they're secretly pushing us to using the more minor deities and pantheons. All PCs will abandon Desna, and turn towards Milani!
I also noticed this and was kinda annoyed. Gods & Magic is a cool book, but this really was like 3-4 additional lines for the core deities. Gods & Magic is kinda unusable on it's own.
I'm REALLY not seeing how you wouldn't have to use two book even with the inclusion of those 3-4 lines. All the main domains, spells, feats, ect are in the core book. This means that ultimately, it wouldn't have been "kinda unusable on it's own" no matter what. It's not like you would have been able to make a cleric with JUST the Gods & Magic book alone is they'd have just put in those 3-4 lines...
As said, might as well just go to Nethys every time, the only place where you can find all the info for playing a Cleric of the Main 20.
This was always going to be the case: the book was NEVER going to have everythng you needed to be a cleric.
Inner Sea Gods (PF1) is one of the best books ever, and it has everything. Even just having some table summarizing all would be cool.
It would have been nice but that's eating into page count as that's be a page or two on it's own depending on font size: adding those 3-4 lines per god and you're eating even more pages of content. So out of the content in the book, what several pages would you ant then to remove for that?
Creative Director
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The question of how much to reprint when we do a book that expands on something else is a question we are often faced. In the case of Gods and Magic, we chose not to reprint the material on deities that was already, in theory, in everyone's hands from the start as a result of that information appearing in the Core Rulebook. Has nothing to do with us trying to "push" other deities onto players, and everything to do with the laws of time and space and how much information we can fit on a page. For the core deities, we opted for the space saving choice. By not reprinting a core deity's edicts, anathemas, follower alignments, font, skill, favored weapon, domains, and cleric spells... we saved an average of a dozen lines of text for each core deity. Think of that as us being able to give you two additional paragraphs of flavor text, or two to three more detailed boons and/or curses for each core deity, I guess.
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I also noticed this and was kinda annoyed. Gods & Magic is a cool book, but this really was like 3-4 additional lines for the core deities. Gods & Magic is kinda unusable on it's own.
As said, might as well just go to Nethys every time, the only place where you can find all the info for playing a Cleric of the Main 20.
Inner Sea Gods (PF1) is one of the best books ever, and it has everything. Even just having some table summarizing all would be cool.
I was looking back fondly at Inner Sea Gods. It is 200 more pages and only $5 more than the PF2 version (I know that was a few years ago, but that's still a huge difference). It has 8 pages per main god, and details the followers and pretty much everything you need to play any of them, including new feats, spells, etc.
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I was looking back fondly at Inner Sea Gods. It is 200 more pages and only $5 more than the PF2 version (I know that was a few years ago, but that's still a huge difference). It has 8 pages per main god, and details the followers and pretty much everything you need to play any of them, including new feats, spells, etc.I also noticed this and was kinda annoyed. Gods & Magic is a cool book, but this really was like 3-4 additional lines for the core deities. Gods & Magic is kinda unusable on it's own.
As said, might as well just go to Nethys every time, the only place where you can find all the info for playing a Cleric of the Main 20.
Inner Sea Gods (PF1) is one of the best books ever, and it has everything. Even just having some table summarizing all would be cool.
The huge difference is that Inner Sea Gods was priced back when writing was criminally underpriced in the industry. It's still underpriced, but fortunately less so. Yes, you'll be paying more for less content these days. Deal with it.