Ok,
Need a PF Changeling for my campaign. Here's what I got so far, I think it's a good conversion, but looking for eyes/comments. Really all I did was give them a +2 to any stat, fix the natural linguist ability, and then post it. I almost did change it to an alter self ability, but decided that might be a bit too powerful.
Changeling Medium Humanoid (Shapechanger)
Attributes : Changelings receive a +2 to a statistic of their choice. Changelings, being descended from Doppelgangers, are highly varied.
Size : Medium
Speed : 30 Feet
Saving Throws : +2 racial bonus on saving throws against sleep and charm effects.
Skills : +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive. When using it's Minor Change Shape ability (see below) the Changeling receives a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks.
Natural Linguist : Changelings add Linguistics to their list of class skills.
Automatic Languages : Common. Bonus Languages : Any non secret language spoken by mortal species. Changelings pick up languages easily.
Minor Change Shape (Su) : Changelings have the supernatural ability to alter their appearance as though using an disguise self spell that affects their bodies but not their possessions. This is not an illusory effect but a minor physical alteration of a changeling's facial features, skin color/texture, and size within the limits as described by the spell. This ability is usable at will, and the alteration lasts until she changes shape again. A changeling reverts to her natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals her natural form. Using this ability is a full-round action.
They've been working on this in another thread, and one idea that's been bandied about a lot is for the Changeling to have a floating +2 stat they can change every day. It might also be neat to allow them to change it at will by spending an action point.
Otherwise, it looks really good.
They've been working on this in another thread, and one idea that's been bandied about a lot is for the Changeling to have a floating +2 stat they can change every day. It might also be neat to allow them to change it at will by spending an action point.
Otherwise, it looks really good.
Thanks. I agree, a floating +2 would be good, but... the paperwork involved, ouch... Just the skills/languages issue with it going into Int today would be a pain. I think just a +2 wherever you want it is best.
What exactly makes changeling such powerful 3.5 races? They get minor shape change, some skill boosts, and one of those crappy saving throw boosts to only certain spell subtypes. Yeah. The change at will is occasionally useful for problem solving above and beyond what minor magic items and level 1 spells do, but its hardly game breaking.
A common trend I notice on this board is to give Eberron races a floating +2 because the base races have it. I'm not entirely sure this is a good idea for Changelings or Warforged because they are seriously the best ECL +0s in 3.5.
You may want to close the RAW loophole and say that Minor Change Shape does include tactile, olfactory, and auditory components. Try this on:
Changelings have the supernatural ability to alter their appearance as though using an disguise self spell that affects their bodies but not their possessions. This is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration that includes visual, auditory, tactile, and olfactory elements. Save for these differences, a changeling may use minor change shape to alter her facial features, skin color/texture, and size within the limits as described by the spell. This ability is usable at will, and the alteration lasts until she changes shape again. A changeling reverts to her natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals her natural form. Using this ability is a full-round action.
I don't really consider changelings all that powerful personally, their ability to 'shapeshift' can be duplicated relatively easily by any rogue with a full disguise kit and a skill focus feat, or with a hat of disguise, since True Seeing reveals their true form in all three cases (actually, I think the rogue with the disguise kit and skill focus feat would not be revealed, since he's actually what he looks like).
So while I'll agree it's a quicker and cheaper way, it's not unduplicatable by other classes/races. So not really so unique.
I do like the rewording though, I'm going to use that. Thanks for the suggestion!
Its unique, with its own benefits and drawbacks. It won't change your clothes (like disguise self or hat of disguise), its subject to true seeing (unlike nonmagic stuff). On the other had, nobody tries to grab you by the hair to realize that you're not as tall as you appear, and the makeup doesn't come off if you get pushed into the water.
Its unique, with its own benefits and drawbacks. It won't change your clothes (like disguise self or hat of disguise), its subject to true seeing (unlike nonmagic stuff). On the other had, nobody tries to grab you by the hair to realize that you're not as tall as you appear, and the makeup doesn't come off if you get pushed into the water.
I agree it's unique (although a little alchemical potion or two could be used to cause 'natural' changes in pigmentation or hair color). Either way though, I don't think I'd classify it as 'one of the most powerful 3.5 races'. :)
I would suggest that it not be a floating +2 but like with Humans a +2 to a stat chosen at first level. After all the Changeling might be changing her appearance but the classes will remain the same.
That's what I have in my original, someone else suggested a floating +2. I think personally it would be a paperwork nightmare. I agree that a +2 to a stat at start is the best way.
One thing I would suggest is that Disguise would be considered a class skill for all changelings.
That would certainly make sense, I need to check though and see if it's already one because of the subtype.
I would suggest that it not be a floating +2 but like with Humans a +2 to a stat chosen at first level. After all the Changeling might be changing her appearance but the classes will remain the same.That's what I have in my original, someone else suggested a floating +2. I think personally it would be a paperwork nightmare. I agree that a +2 to a stat at start is the best way.
Maybe just have their ability work exactly like the alter self spell with a permanent duration?
Actually the ability as they have it is a slight improvement over the standard disguise self in that it is a physical change not just the visual illusion that the standard spell is.
Actually that's exactly my point.
Say for a minute that Changlings only have that power as their racial thing. They still don't count as anything else, they get a stat boost (physical only) based the form they take and it's already a physical change.
I'm not really seeing that much difference between their shape change ability and the alter self spell.
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Ok I don't have the document in front of me, so I'm working off my memory (stop laughing) but here's the mechanics for my shapeshifting race.
Morphs.
+2 to Wisdom, -2 to Charisma. Morphs often have to be more aware of their surroundings and how people are judging them, but their secretive nature makes them naturally less assertive.
Medium Size: Morphs are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed.
Low-Light Vision: Morphs can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Natural Armour: Morphs have a +1 natural armor bonus in their normal form.
Shapechanger: While humanoid, Morphs have the shapeshifter subtype.
Empathy: Morphs have a +2 racial bonus to Sense Motive and Diplomacy checks.
Languages: Morphs begin play speaking Common. Morphs with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
Alter Self (SU) Morphs can change their shape to any small or medium humanoid, as per the Alter Self spell. This does not affect any equipment the morph may be carrying/wearing.
Actually the ability as they have it is a slight improvement over the standard disguise self in that it is a physical change not just the visual illusion that the standard spell is.
Actually that's exactly my point.
Say for a minute that Changlings only have that power as their racial thing. They still don't count as anything else, they get a stat boost (physical only) based the form they take and it's already a physical change.
I'm not really seeing that much difference between their shape change ability and the alter self spell.
I don't understand your question, are you talking about a proposed power or the ability as it exists in Eberron. Because the original changeling gets nothing but an appearance change from thier ability. (although I might allow for some minor change in voice) In no way shape or form would I allow any player race to have a "My bonus is whatever I feel like it is this minute" power.
BTW, Matthew your Morph race even under Pathfinder scope would definitely be at least an ECL + 2 race.
Here's my thing: In pathfinder, this alter self spell gives up to four abilites and a +2 bonus based on size of the form:
Darkvision, low light vision, Scent, and Swim 30 feet.
With a bonus to either Str for a medium creature or Dex for a small creature.
IF this is ALL the changling was to get as a racial ability, I would call it good.
After all they would be getting:
+2 to one stat,
+10 to disguise checks (from the altered form)
and low light, darkvision, scent or swim speed.
No natural armor, no other stat bonuses, no actual change in type or anything...
Really all it is is a physical change in shape to match the form of the creature type -- in other words an physical Disguise self spell! It's not even that powerful.
Just a small addition to this conversation. :)
Before encounter "Pathfinder", my RPing group used the floating bonus to ability scores idea as well... however, we limited this bonus to only apply towards the physical statistics of Strength, Dexderity, and Constitution. We reasoned that no Changeling would be able to alter aspects of his psyche, except to play act that they were somehow more deficient than they actually were. Just a thought.
Ok,
Need a PF Changeling for my campaign. Here's what I got so far, I think it's a good conversion, but looking for eyes/comments. Really all I did was give them a +2 to any stat, fix the natural linguist ability, and then post it. I almost did change it to an alter self ability, but decided that might be a bit too powerful.
I like this.
Why not give them this and offer them a feat after 3rd level to get the rest of alter self. Alter self is a 2nd level spells so its available by 4th level - they get to do it permanently though.
You might want some sort of mechanic where a changeling can recognize another changeling.
This is my conversion.
Changeling
Shapechanger: Changelings are humanoids with the shapechanger subtype.
Medium: Changelings are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Changelings have a base speed of 30 feet.
Slippery Mind: Changelings receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against sleep and charm effects.
Deceptive: Changelings receive a +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Disguise, and Sense Motive checks.
Change Shape (Su): Changelings have the supernatural ability to assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type as though using an alter self spell. A changeling can use this ability at will, and the alteration lasts until he changes shape again. A changeling reverts to his natural form when killed. When using this ability to create a disguise, a changeling receives a +20 bonus on Disguise checks. Using this ability is a full-round action.
Languages: Changelings begin play speaking Common. Changelings with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
And that's it. The alter self, obviously, is the big change and as this carries the +2 to one stat, the four extra abilities, the +20 to disguise, and the purity of being a physical change I thought it was enough. I just thought about how changelings could infiltrate certain groups. Could you imagine them being able to survive in a nest of goblins, shapechanged as a goblin, but being unable to see in the dark whilst in that form? I just like the purity of this, and so removed all the other extraneous stuff that was really there to balance it up. This build now makes sense against the doppelganger, I feel.
I thought about adding the Perfect Copy ability but decided that a PC could emulate this by acquiring the Perfect Reflection feat (Player's Guide to Eberron). I also think that having a land-based standard race that can acquire a swim speed and breathe underwater is a great extra option for most parties (who tend to run from water like the plague).
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This is my conversion.
Changeling
Shapechanger: Changelings are humanoids with the shapechanger subtype.
Medium: Changelings are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Changelings have a base speed of 30 feet.
Slippery Mind: Changelings receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against sleep and charm effects.
Deceptive: Changelings receive a +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Disguise, and Sense Motive checks.
Change Shape (Su): Changelings have the supernatural ability to assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type as though using an alter self spell. A changeling can use this ability at will, and the alteration lasts until he changes shape again. A changeling reverts to his natural form when killed. When using this ability to create a disguise, a changeling receives a +20 bonus on Disguise checks. Using this ability is a full-round action.
Languages: Changelings begin play speaking Common. Changelings with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
Very similar to mine. you might want to specify that items and gear do not resize with the character if the intent is for only the body to change. I found that something of a balance for when the rogue wants to shift into a halfling for that +2 dex, then back to the half orc for the +2 strength.
"Dangit Bill! You forgot to switch clothes again going from halfling to half orc! *sigh* Anyone have purple pants for Bill, please?"
Very similar to mine. you might want to specify that items and gear do not resize with the character if the intent is for only the body to change. I found that something of a balance for when the rogue wants to shift into a halfling for that +2 dex, then back to the half orc for the +2 strength.
"Dangit Bill! You forgot to switch clothes again going from halfling to half orc! *sigh* Anyone have purple pants for Bill, please?"
Similar to yours apart from that I haven't got your:
1. Mental ability modifers2. Low-light vision
3. Natural armour, or
4. Empathy.
So not that similar. My conversion is a stripped down doppelganger. I know what you mean about specifying that items and equipment don't change but, as they don't change with alter self, I don't feel it's necessary. It's necessary to specify that with disguise self, because they do change and hence why that whole attempt to convert an illusion effect to a transmutation needed all the extra qualifiers. Not needed for alter self though. Thanks for the feedback though.
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From the Polymorph description:
If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
Alter Self
School transmutation (polymorph);
I wanted a fluff/balance factor of having some abilities in their normal form, and the extra weight/expense of carrying gear for their size, so I specified the need to resize equipment.
Looks like we both started with the doppleganger and yours is more removed than mine.
Still, I do like.
From the Polymorph description:
If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.Alter Self
School transmutation (polymorph);I wanted a fluff/balance factor of having some abilities in their normal form, and the extra weight/expense of carrying gear for their size, so I specified the need to resize equipment.
Looks like we both started with the doppleganger and yours is more removed than mine.
Still, I do like.
Ah! Excellent spot. I'd missed that and you're dead right: I don't want equipment resizing. I knew it wouldn't be merging so knew it wouldn't be changing - in appearance, that is. Forgot about the size change.
D'oh, I'd misread your initial comment which addressed exactly this; was thinking about disguise self and equipment changing in appearance. Yes, I'll add it in. Thanks.The ability should therefore now read:
Change Shape (Su): Changelings have the supernatural ability to assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type as though using an alter self spell. Unlike the alter self spell, however, your equipment does not resize to match your new size. A changeling can use this ability at will, and the alteration lasts until he changes shape again. A changeling reverts to his natural form when killed. When using this ability to create a disguise, a changeling receives a +20 bonus on Disguise checks. Using this ability is a full-round action.
And yes, you're right again: it is a nice limiter. But that limit adds some interesting development options. I can see a need for a whole range of symbiotic clothing that a changeling can control with his change shape ability. Hat of Disguise is all well and good but clothing that can actually change in size, shape, colour and appearance as part of the change shape action would be very cool. Perhaps it could even be another class of familiar, but a symbiote would be cool because then it's open to all classes.
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Ok, revising my Morphs with some of the clarifications I picked up from Al.
Edit: and I think symbiont clothes are a cool idea.
Morphs.
+2 to Wisdom, -2 to Charisma. Morphs are prone to greater insight into their surroundings themselves, but their secretive nature makes them naturally less assertive.
Medium Size: Morphs are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed.
Low-Light Vision: In their natural form, morphs can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Natural Armour: Morphs have a +1 natural armor bonus in their natural form.
Empathy: Morphs are low level empaths, allowing them to tell people what they want to hear. They receive a +2 racial bonus of morph checks regardless of form.
Shapechanger: While humanoid, Morphs have the shapeshifter subtype.
Languages: Morphs begin play speaking Common. Morphs with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
Alter Self (SU) As a full round action, a morph may assume the shape of any small or medium creature of the humanoid type. This functions as the alter self spell, with the following modifications:
• The duration is effectively unlimited, however the morph resumes her natural form when slain.
• Equipment does not change form, neither to meld into the body nor to resize.
Fluff wise, mine have reasons to hide their form, but I don't see that as a balance in and of itself.
Ok, revising my Morphs with some of the clarifications I picked up from Al.
Your morph is sufficiently different from the changeling that I think it's probably more of a homebrew race than a changeling conversion. I suppose that the same could be said of mine. I definitely think that Pathfinder needs a shapechanging PC race though, along the lines of the changeling. I'd created one well before Eberron was released but my DM of the time was worried that alter self would be too powerful so we came up with a load of mental issues that shapechanging led to, such as form immersion, where the creature would occasionally forget what it was as it would immerse its identity so completely with the new form. In the end, we chose a "change self" (this was 2e) version that was echoed by Keith Baker in Eberron. Wouldn't be surprised if many homebrew shapechanging PC races went through similar processes. I should probably dust it off and post it in homebrew. Or I might even add the form immersion issues to my changeling as balancing factors. Hmmm...
Anyway, on to your morph's traits.
The Cha hit is a big one. As a shapechanging PC race, a player is going to want Cha-based skills and so this is definitely sub-optimal. I wouldn't choose to play the race probably because of this.
Low-light vision and natural armour in their natural form. It adds to the power of the race slightly but a typical player may not actually see much benefit from it, if you assume that they'll, more often than not, be in another form. I'm not sure that it's therefore worth powering up the race slightly for these benefits. You can get low-light vision from another form. So it's only really the natural armour bonus that a morph would resume its own form for. Is it worth it?
Empathy: what's a morph check?
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Ok, revising my Morphs with some of the clarifications I picked up from Al.Your morph is sufficiently different from the changeling that I think it's probably more of a homebrew race than a changeling conversion. I suppose that the same could be said of mine. I definitely think that Pathfinder needs a shapechanging PC race though, along the lines of the changeling. I'd created one well before Eberron was released but my DM of the time was worried that alter self would be too powerful so we came up with a load of mental issues that shapechanging led to, such as form immersion, where the creature would occasionally forget what it was as it would immerse its identity so completely with the new form. In the end, we chose a "change self" (this was 2e) version that was echoed by Keith Baker in Eberron. Wouldn't be surprised if many homebrew shapechanging PC races went through similar processes. I should probably dust it off and post it in homebrew. Or I might even add the form immersion issues to my changeling as balancing factors. Hmmm...
Anyway, on to your morph's traits.
** spoiler omitted **
Empathy: what's a morph check?
Thank you for your input.
It should be a bluff check *winces* And that boys and girls is why we need editors.
Even though I do expect the character to stay in another shape I wanted some 'benefits' for one that doesn't. It also makes a difference at low levels as the character develops, which skin are they comfortable in?
I don't think WotC can hold the copyright on 'shapeshifters among us'. My morphs range from green to blue skinned, with large eyes like greys. So they owe as much to Mystique, skrulls and the Asgard from Stargate as to Eberron.