Hello,
I would like to ask a question about action economy:
I start with a full action to perform a full attack. I hit with my first natural weapon. Now, having the ability to "Grab", I instantly engage my opponent in a grapple. Now I give myself an additional movement action via a magic item. Because I have the talent "Greater Grapple", I use this movement action to pin my opponent.
Now I'd like to continue my full action and do my remaining attacks.
- Is that possible?
- Can I insert this additional movement action at this point?
- Have I understood the talent "Greater Grapple" correctly?
Thanks for your answers!
Unless whatever means you have to gain an extra move action says you can use it in the middle of another action, no. You'll need to finish the other action (possibly ending it early) first.
If you end a full attack after the first attack, it only takes a standard action though.
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack (core rulebook) wrote: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
I guess it all depends on the magic item you are using.
As avr suggested (Suggested? Maybe actually stated), a Full Attack is a Full Round Action, and that leaves precious little actions left for activating magic items that give you some kind of ability to Move with your Grappled victim. If you hit your victim once as a Standard Action Grapple using Grab as a Free Action, then that leaves you a Swift Action and a Move Action, and any number of Free Actions to play with. After that, I guess it depends on exactly what Magic Item you intend to activate as a Move or Free Action that will let you move off with your Grappled victim.
If you really mean "Move," that will be very hard to accomplish. Usually, when you have someone Grappled, you are Grappled yourself and Grappled creatures can't move. There is the Move Maintain-a-Grapple check, which lets you make a Move Action by spending your Swift Action. So, lets say you have Greater Grapple, which lets you Grapple as a Move Action, and you are wearing a Quick Runner's Shirt:
1, you hit your opponent with you Alchemal Tentacle as a Standard Action, then Grapple him as a Free Action.
2, you use Greater Grapple to Pin your opponent.
3, you use your Quick Runner's Shirt as a Swift Action to take a 2nd Move Action, and so you Grapple your opponent again, Moving yourself and your opponent at 1/2 your Move Speed away from the melee.
That's fine.
But if you are talking about Actually Full Attacking, then you can't take any Standard Actions or Move actions. You only have your Swift Action and Free Actions you can take, and I guess you can take those in the middle of your Full Attack.
Another option might be if you have somebody else take a readied Standard or Move action on your behalf during your Round. Let's say you have a Ratling Ally that has the Dimension Door Ability. In the first round you Grapple and Tie Up an opponent using Improved and Greater grapple and Expert Captor. Then your Ratling Ally Dimdoors all 3 of you to some other location from where you can transport your quarry to her fair trial after the Ratlings rob her. That might work, but Dimension Door only works on willing travellers, but your Tied Up victim might count as a carried item rather than an unwilling traveller, depending on the ruling of the GM.
You don’t get to make maintain checks until your next turn, regardless of what abilities you have. It is an intentional part of game balance that gives the victim at least one chance to do something before things get really bad for them. You cannot make your check to maintain with greater grapple on the same turn that you initiated the grapple.
start at 4:50
This kind of stuff comes up in Psionics with the Hustle Power because it gives you an additional Move Action. And the answer is no, you can't use your 2nd Move action in the middle of your full attack action. You have to complete your Full Attack Action, then you can use your additional Move Action.
RAWmonger wrote: You don’t get to make maintain checks until your next turn, regardless of what abilities you have. It is an intentional part of game balance that gives the victim at least one chance to do something before things get really bad for them. You cannot make your check to maintain with greater grapple on the same turn that you initiated the grapple.
start at 4:50
Mark Seifter does not have the rules to back him up. He never did. As a designer, he has the ability to change the rules, but he never did. He needs to follow the rules just like everyone else. He needs to follow the rules MORE than anyone else. If the actual game designers can't follow their own rule, then no one should, speaking as a paying customer. His opinion is better evidence than my opinion, but my opinion is not being offered by evidence, here. I have publicly demonstrated on numerous occasions an abundance of evidence proving my claim.
If you want me to cite this all chapter-and-verse yet again, I can. Meanwhile, this is a summary.
The rules say that you get to make a Standard Action and a Move Action every turn.
The rules say that once you have initiated a grapple, subsequent successful checks let you Move, Pin, Damage, or Tie Up an opponent.
The rules say you get to Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action.
The rules say that Greater Grapple lets you make a Grapple Check as a Move Action, and the rules say that Greater Grapple lets you make 2 checks/round to harm your opponent. They even specifically call out Moving and Pinning your opponent.
Paizo Publishing may not have intended grappling to work the way they wrote it, but we consumers are not responsible for what they meant to say. They are responsible for what they did say.
Hustle is a bit different, I'd say. Hustle is a swift action. Swift actions can be done anytime you'd be able to do a free action, and free actions can explicitly be done between attacks in a Full Attack action.
Also, somebody mentioned a Quick Runner's Shirt to make use of Greater Grapple; that doesn't work, since I'm 90% sure that Quick Runner's Shirt explicitly only allows you to move with your move action, nothing else.
Kaouse wrote: Hustle is a bit different, I'd say. Hustle is a swift action. Swift actions can be done anytime you'd be able to do a free action, and free actions can explicitly be done between attacks in a Full Attack action.
Also, somebody mentioned a Quick Runner's Shirt to make use of Greater Grapple; that doesn't work, since I'm 90% sure that Quick Runner's Shirt explicitly only allows you to move with your move action, nothing else.
Yeah you can activate Hustle with a swift whenever you want, but you cannot take the move action in the middle of your full attack action.
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
3, you use your Quick Runner's Shirt as a Swift Action to take a 2nd Move Action, and so you Grapple your opponent again, Moving yourself and your opponent at 1/2 your Move Speed away from the melee.
As you pointed out, the rules are what matter in this discussion, so this doesn't work.
AoN wrote: Quick Runner's Shirt
Source Ultimate Equipment pg. 222
Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th
Slot chest; Price 1,000 gp; Weight —
Description
This shirt is made of light, gossamer-thin fabric embroidered with arrangements of winged feet. Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take an additional move action to move and then immediately end his turn, losing any unspent actions. A character must wear this shirt continuously for 24 hours before he can activate this ability.
The move action you receive from the Quick Runner's Shirt can be used only to move, not for any movement action. You can't use it to make a grapple action, even if that grapple action "cost" a movement action.
Diego Rossi wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote:
3, you use your Quick Runner's Shirt as a Swift Action to take a 2nd Move Action, and so you Grapple your opponent again, Moving yourself and your opponent at 1/2 your Move Speed away from the melee.
As you pointed out, the rules are what matter in this discussion, so this doesn't work.
AoN wrote: Quick Runner's Shirt
Source Ultimate Equipment pg. 222
Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th
Slot chest; Price 1,000 gp; Weight —
Description
This shirt is made of light, gossamer-thin fabric embroidered with arrangements of winged feet. Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take an additional move action to move and then immediately end his turn, losing any unspent actions. A character must wear this shirt continuously for 24 hours before he can activate this ability.
The move action you receive from the Quick Runner's Shirt can be used only to move, not for any movement action. You can't use it to make a grapple action, even if that grapple action "cost" a movement action. Huh,
Well maybe some other Maagic Item.
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