Wizard / cleric or cleric / wizard?


Advice


Basically title. I really like the themes of the combination of classes and was wondering which was the better way to go. I'd like Nethys as my deity for thematic reasons.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

They're both quite viable (which is more than I can say for the old Mystic Theurge). I'd say the primary decision should come down to flavor: do you see your character as a wizard first or cleric first? I have a Nethys worshipping wizard that may end up multiclassing into Cleric, but that's because I see the character first and foremost a Wizard.
Other considerations: the rest of your party. Are they looking for someone to pick up in-combat healing? Then a primary Cleric with Divine Font will likely be handy.
As ability scores go, Wis probably edges out Int, though they are both useful scores to have high; depending on how you build your character an 18 in one and 16 in the other might be doable, otherwise I suspect you'll start with an 18/14.
In the end, there isn't a wrong choice; do what feels right.

Sovereign Court

Basically consider what your base class gives that you can't get through multiclassing. For the Wizard, that is mostly your Arcane Theory and any benefits if you choose a school to specialize in. For the Cleric, you potentially have better armor and weapon proficiencies (if you go Warpriest) and you get Divine Font for more healing. It's up to you which choice you prefer. Personally, I think I'd rather go Cleric(Warpriest)/Wizard.

Scarab Sages

First World Bard wrote:

They're both quite viable (which is more than I can say for the old Mystic Theurge). I'd say the primary decision should come down to flavor: do you see your character as a wizard first or cleric first? I have a Nethys worshipping wizard that may end up multiclassing into Cleric, but that's because I see the character first and foremost a Wizard.

Other considerations: the rest of your party. Are they looking for someone to pick up in-combat healing? Then a primary Cleric with Divine Font will likely be handy.
As ability scores go, Wis probably edges out Int, though they are both useful scores to have high; depending on how you build your character an 18 in one and 16 in the other might be doable, otherwise I suspect you'll start with an 18/14.
In the end, there isn't a wrong choice; do what feels right.

I second all of this. I also built a Wizard/Cleric MCD of Nethys for PFS.

However, remember 1) your first class's spell proficiency will scale much faster than your multiclass's spell proficiency
and 2) spell proficiency governs spell DC and spell attack rolls.

The Arcane tradition has many spells (debuff and direct damage) that rely on high spell DCs/ attack rolls to be effective, whereas the Divine tradition is more suited for buffs and healing, which don't.

Therefore, I say a Wizard/Cleric MCD is better than the reverse.

Praise Nethys!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Samurai wrote:
Basically consider what your base class gives that you can't get through multiclassing. For the Wizard, that is mostly your Arcane Theory and any benefits if you choose a school to specialize in. For the Cleric, you potentially have better armor and weapon proficiencies (if you go Warpriest) and you get Divine Font for more healing. It's up to you which choice you prefer. Personally, I think I'd rather go Cleric(Warpriest)/Wizard.

From a setting/lore perspective, I'd expect a Cleric/MC Wizard of Nethys to be a Cloistered Cleric, not a Warpriest; I'd think that having the best proficiency for spells is more important than better weapon/armor proficiency to such a character; YMMV.

That said, the Warpriest certainly looks better in terms of class features at lower levels; having Medium Armor proficiency certainly helps the MAD a Cleric/MC Wizard has doing on. If you're a human, you can just use Natural Ambition to pick up Domain Initiate and have the best of both worlds. If you're playing in a short campaign and won't make it to 7th level, Warpriest looks to be a straight-up better choice, really.


Wizard with Cleric MC. Gets you more spells (other than heal) and you have faster scaling for your attack cantrips. Divine Lance is not useable for a cleric of Nethys.

Many of the Cleric's caster feats are also focused on divine font, but your charisma is probably going to suffer for such a MC character, making those feats questionable.

I've actually played a Wizard -> Cleric during the playtest. Up to level 7, I think. Hardly ever found a use for my divine spells. Granted, I only had very few of them at that level, but I'm not sure it's worth the investment. Retconned him to an Arcane Sorcerer -> Wizard when the PF2 was released and I think I like him better that way.

Anyway, just trying to say that the Multiclass isn't worth it unless you play to higher levels. Getting the other class's Dedication for a free feat and basically cantrip Expansion is pretty nice, though.

Sovereign Court

Brave has an idea there: I think an Arcane Sorcerer/Cleric or vice versa is in some ways a better choice than using Wizard. Charisma determines the Cleric's font and acts as the Sorcerer's casting stat, making it less MAD. Plus, if the character has any innate spells because he is a Gnome or Elf, those use Charisma too, and can help cover the lack of Cleric attack cantrips.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I also recommend a Wizard > Cleric for a couple of reasons. I've a short section write up on it here.

Checkout the "Traditions in a Blender" section to see why its such a good option!


Cleric Dedication won't give anything to a Wizard. The Divine spells need to be heightened to their highest level to be useful in general. Cleric feats are useless to a Wizard. Only Focus spells can be (hardly) useful.
Going Cleric MCed Wizard is harder to build, but you don't need more than 14 in Intelligence, so it works at high level. Arcane spell list contains tons of utility spells, and Wizard feats are honorably usable by a Cleric (even if not impressive).
In my opinion, both are not excellent combinations. But I would go Cleric MCed Wizard.


There are pros and cons for both.

For Wizard/Cleric, you have a more potent mainboard selection of spells (and better cantrips), and only need two stats (and you were happy to be raising WIS anyway). The tradeoff is that the Cleric dedication really doesn't do a lot for a long time. The healing, buff and restoration spells all want to be upcast.

For Cleric/Wizard, you're more of a dedicated support caster with the Divine base, with the dedication providing utility. The advantage here is that the Arcane list does better with limited spells and slots, since tools like Invisibility, Longstrider, etc work just fine with low level slots. You are MADder though, wanting maximum WIS, and good INT and CHA.

Personally, I think Cleric/Wizard is the better choice.


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Alright, based on the discussion here, I'm probably going to be going one of two ways.

If my party needs more potential blasting, debuffing, or utility, I'll probably go Wizard/Cleric. If my party needs more buffing and healing, I'll go Cleric/Arcane Sorc. I've ran through some basic character creation, and my stats would be run a bit too thin trying to get high Wisdom and good Charisma/Intelligence for a Cleric/Wizard (it's possible, but I'd have to completely tank all three physical stats which feels dangerous), so I'll just try and get decent intelligence and go for a lot of Recall Knowledge skills for the scholarly feel I want.

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