Magus, in my opinion, one of the most damage classes in Pf. Magus can can make strong buffed attacks with spells, but not buffed attacks in most cases, are not strong, because weapon damage no more then d10
But there are archetypes, which upgrade this damge, and changes some abilities. Its Esoteric, Jistkan Artificer and Iron-Ring Striker. All of them make magus more monkish, but in diferent ways
Esoteric, Jistkan Artificer and Iron-Ring Striker have monk like unarmed damage, expect Artificer, his damge progression is 2 levels lower. On the another side, he has bonuses to attack and damage with Golem Arm
They all also have a Diminished Spellcasting, which makes them more attack focused, then spell focused. Esoteric magus gain tattoo spells on high levels, What allow him to use a bit more spells, that means deal more damage or self buffs. Iron-Ring Striker can use spell slot to increase his size for Combat Maneuvers. Maybe its cool ability, but substitute damage spell or buff to +1 or +2 CMD amd CMB is strange idea
Jistkan Artificer and Esoteric have changed arcanas: Esoteric arcana pool threating as ki pool, and he can use it for monk buffs, and bonus armor on high levels ; Jistkan Artificer gain acces to cool arcanas, which he can use with Golem Arm: like flurry of blows, breaking spell and such
In my opion Jistkan Artificer the best Unarmed magus thanks to his Golem Arm arcanas and attack/damage buffs. But what are you think? Who are the best and why?
Artificer is so much better it's not even funny.
Flurrying Arm + Blade Tutor's Spirit + Spellstrike is a beating.
Slap heavy armor, head for Shark Style + Shark Tear to have higher attack bonuses in general.
Magus, in my opinion, one of the most damage classes in Pf. Magus can can make strong buffed attacks with spells, but not buffed attacks in most cases, are not strong, because weapon damage no more then d10
But there are archetypes, which upgrade this damge, and changes some abilities. Its Esoteric, Jistkan Artificer and Iron-Ring Striker. All of them make magus more monkish, but in diferent ways
I completely disagree with the premise of this thread. The increased damage dice from Unarmed Strikes are barely noticeable at lower levels, and even as the damage bonus increases the overall damage also increases so the percentage increase stays small. Unless handwraps are available you're also paying twice the amount of gold for your enhancement bonus.
Unarmed Strike weapon dmg compared to a Scimitar:
lv 1-3: 0
lv 4-7: +1
lv 8-11: +2
lv 12-15: +3.5
lv 16-19: +5.5
lv 20: +7.5
But the real disadvantage is losing your 18-20 crit range (later 15-20), which means your normal damage and spell damage takes a hit. So your Unarmed Strike damage is probably lower or equal than the Scimitar for like 75% of your career, while your spell damage will always be lower.
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But aside from that, Jistkan Artificer is in an awkward spot since I don't think there's any way to get dex-to-damage with it. AoMF and Handwraps doesn't work, and it doesn't say you can upgrade the golem arm as a magic weapon.
Why would you ever, in this world, need DEX-to-damage on a Jistkan Artificer?
Why would you ever, in this world, need DEX-to-damage on a Jistkan Artificer?
I'm sure you think you've stated something obvious, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Why wouldn't you want dex-to-damage when playing a class that heavily favors dex builds?
Why would you ever, in this world, need DEX-to-damage on a Jistkan Artificer?I'm sure you think you've stated something obvious, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Why wouldn't you want dex-to-damage when playing a class that heavily favors dex builds?
Magus is actively worse with DEX, as long as you have Heavy Armor in the horizon. The best polymorph effects boost your STR as well as your size, granting you larger damage dices.
Polymorph effects that increase your DEX reduce your damage dice.
Furthermore, reducing size and becoming more susceptible to CMD targeting effects exacerbates the weaknesses of the Magus.
Everything in the Magus kit has a benefit for going with STR.
The only thing pushing the Magus towards DEX is the fact that it scales very well with critical hits, and the best 18-20 weapons are finesse-friendly.
Doesn't change the fact that everything in their kit/spell-list is geared towards STR.
Is golem arm polymorph compatible?
Yeah, it's a manufactured weapon.
Best used with Monstruous Physique into a Dire Corbie for pounce!
Magus is actively worse with DEX, as long as you have Heavy Armor in the horizon.
"Horizon" being the key word here. You have to survive the first 12 levels, you know.
The best polymorph effects boost your STR as well as your size, granting you larger damage dices.
So we're talking Fey Form and Monstrous Physique here, right? I can appreciate having more options, but Spell Combat is still the main gimmick of the class.
What's the amazing polymorph form that makes having horrible Touch AC and getting killed thrice over at the early levels worth it?
What's the amazing polymorph form that makes having horrible Touch AC and getting killed thrice over at the early levels worth it?
Lol as if Dex builds did better on the early levels. A Devilfish is lights out for a Dex Magus.
Also, touch AC difference is negligible.
I'd disagree, but my experience playing is with smaller groups of players who are generally FAR from optimized or knowledgeable about Pathfinder. Therefore my Magus has almost always been the primary damage dealer and frontliner. When I had a STR Magus that I couldn't optimize (L4, no stats below 10, 15 point buy) I was a VERY glassy cannon. Now at L5 with a Dex build, I still don't have any stats below a 10 but that AC difference has been the difference between quite a few hits landing and missing (and was even able to bump my Con up 2 points).
In PFS or more experienced groups, I'm sure a Str Magus can be even more viable.
But to get back to the original post, the Iron-Ring Striker is really interesting to me. I built a series of Android Iron-Ring Striker assassins to go after my Kingmaker party. Giving their unarmed strikes Cruel is great for a Rime Frostbite/Enforcer build, and Vicious adds a good bit of damage on top of that. Is it the best unarmed build? Probably not, but it's very flavorful.
I think Striker is more cambat maneuver archetype. Thats intresting, bonus Maneuvers feats, increasing size, but we need take agile Maneuvers if we go dex build
Hexcrafter with hexstrike slumber hex is super nice. Some people will argue that you don't have the hex class feature so can't take hexstrike, but I feel like most are ok with it. With it you can cast a spell, hit and deliver both the spell and slumber. Pick your favorite debuff then hit, it's lights out for most opponents.
Hexcrafter with hexstrike slumber hex is super nice. Some people will argue that you don't have the hex class feature so can't take hexstrike, but I feel like most are ok with it. With it you can cast a spell, hit and deliver both the spell and slumber. Pick your favorite debuff then hit, it's lights out for most opponents.
In most cases you cant debuff 1 enemy more then once per day. But Artificer and Striker stucks with Hexcrafter, so you can take hex strike
What are you think about Esoteric?
What are you think about Esoteric?
There might be some unexpected ways to utilize Ki Arcana, but the archetype itself doesn't provide you with them. Unless you're thinking about some strange Bewildering Koan build there doesn't seem to be any noteworthy feats.
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What's the amazing polymorph form that makes having horrible Touch AC and getting killed thrice over at the early levels worth it?Lol as if Dex builds did better on the early levels. A Devilfish is lights out for a Dex Magus.
Also, touch AC difference is negligible.
I can't help noticing you haven't even tried to answer my question.
What large or huge forms are worth being STR-based?
Is golem arm polymorph compatible?Yeah, it's a manufactured weapon.
"While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (...) You also lose any class features that depend upon form". The golem arm replaces one of your actual arms. It doesn't get much more dependant on your original form than that. And no, that's not a class feature "that allow[s] you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws)" (well, you could create a new arm for your new body, if the polymorph lasts long enough), that's about activatable class feature, not permanent, passive ones.
@Pro100Andr: Do you want unarmed for flavor reasons, or to deal more damage? If it's the latter, you will do more damage with a weapon.
What large or huge forms are worth being STR-based?
Yig. Add in Spell Combat'ed Bladed Dash for pseudo-pounce with an additional attack...
In practise, you'd probably want to use Deathsnatcher, which would work for dex-based with an Agile AoMF, although strength based does more damage.
I did quite a bit of comparaison between str and dex build for polymorph magus from level 1 to 13. And yes str build does more physical damage (approximately one enhancement more, like Flaming or a +1, and better base damage for naturals attacks).
On the other hand, dex build have better AC (between +2 and +4, depending on level), better reflex save (from +4 to as high as your dex can get), better init and better skills. The main downside of the dex build, beside the damage, is the fewer numbers of good small form and the total absence of tiny one.
... the total absence of tiny one.Fey Form II gives option for Tiny fey
True but Fey Form 2 is level 16 for magus, quite late. When I said there was no tiny form, I meant for Monstrous Humanoid 2, that give more bonus if you transform into a tiny Monstrous Humanoid but I didnt find any which seem silly (to give a bonus that arent usable).