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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
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So the new Small Arm Caustoject series is an EAC targeting Injection weapon, Nice!
It has the description of the following:
Quote: Much of the design of this pistol-like weapon is based off the biological systems of the disintegration lash class of small arms (Armory 36), though a caustoject’s more traditional appearance is in stark contrast to its techno-organic inspiration. Caustojects create an injectable field that transforms ordinary matter into an acidic compound, disintegrating their targets from the inside. Syringes can be loaded into these weapons, allowing other materials to be quickly injected instead of an acidic discharge (in which case only the injection effect occurs—no acid damage is dealt). So if a Biohacker wanted to use an Inhibitor (or any poison/medicine/drug that can be used with an injection weapon) while firing this weapon, it would deal no weapon damage? That is unfortunate.
Does it still target EAC, even though it's not dealing any Energy damage when used in this way?
What if you doubletapped with it, one ammo firing the desired injection, one firing the Acid?
And then following up is its cousin, the Caustolance:
Quote: Drawing upon the same design and inspirations as the caustoject, this larger weapon is designed to resemble an assault rifle rather than a pistol. As with its smaller cousin, a caustolance uses its battery to generate an acidic field to inject directly into its targets, but it can also handle and discharge other substances that are poured into a special tank that is attached to the weapon’s barrel. This doesn't state that it doesn't deal Acid damage when used with an inject-able item. We can infer that it probably shouldn't if the ject doesn't, but it doesn't state that.
I can't really answer the deeper question here, since it goes to intent. Nonetheless, I'd give the following answers to other questions:
1. EAC? Yes. Its consistent across the rules that, if an attack targets KAC or EAC, changing the damage type via an external means does not change the targeted AC. I see no reason to break this rule for an attack being changed to not do damage at all.
2. Double Tap? Double tap says you use double the ammo. Biohacks are not ammo. Using the Double Tap feat would have you doing a single attack, that may apply a biohack if you choose, but it only uses a single biohack usage. . . because it is a single usage of that ability. The doubled needle ammo usage is what pays for the DT bonuses. The same would apply with stuff like Overcharge Weapon or any other ability that effects an attack. Double Tap enhances an attack, it doesn't make it two attacks.
Metaphysician wrote: 2. Double Tap? Double tap says you use double the ammo. Biohacks are not ammo. Using the Double Tap feat would have you doing a single attack, that may apply a biohack if you choose, but it only uses a single biohack usage. . . because it is a single usage of that ability. The doubled needle ammo usage is what pays for the DT bonuses. The same would apply with stuff like Overcharge Weapon or any other ability that effects an attack. Double Tap enhances an attack, it doesn't make it two attacks. I agree it uses up 2 usages worth of your battery.
I yield that mechanically, it doesn't matter what you load into it, it just uses up two uses of whatever ammo it's using and does it's thing.
However In the case of Biohacks (or really any situation where it matters what ammo you use) doubletap consuming twice the ammo can make some questions happen.
This is going off topic a bit now, but lets say you loaded up a Needler Pistol with 6 doses Blue Whinnis poison and the used double tap with it. Are you completely wasting one of your doses of Blue Whinnis? Or do they get exposed twice upon a hit? Would it make more sense to load every other needle in the gun with the poison if you're going to Double Tap?
Well, getting the chance to expose the target twice would be broken as hell, so that one is out. I lean to "waste a dose", unless the PC loads a mix of needles. Which I would allow, note.
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actually the caustoject and caustolance will still get to deal their acid damage IN ADDITION to a biohack
a biohack IS NOT a syringe or other compound you are injecting (in rules terms) Biohack is an EX ability, an extraordinary ability that augments an attack made with any weapon with the injection ability. Biohack specifically states that the attack that is being augmented with an inhibitor must successfully deal damage, heavily implying that it always augments an attack in addition to its base damage.
That last bit of text on the caustoject description is in refferance to any character (biohacker or not) that uses it to deliver some other compound, such as a drug they perchased from a shop or somthing.
Thus, a double-tap attack with a casutoject wielded by a biohacker using a biohack will get +1 to hit, deal its base acid damage + full weapon specialisation damage (+any other applicable modifiers), and apply the inhibitor, all at the cost of 2 charges and 1 standard action
Koiju wrote: actually the caustoject and caustolance will still get to deal their acid damage IN ADDITION to a biohack
a biohack IS NOT a syringe or other compound you are injecting (in rules terms) Biohack is an EX ability, an extraordinary ability that augments an attack made with any weapon with the injection ability. Biohack specifically states that the attack that is being augmented with an inhibitor must successfully deal damage, heavily implying that it always augments an attack in addition to its base damage.
That last bit of text on the caustoject description is in refferance to any character (biohacker or not) that uses it to deliver some other compound, such as a drug they perchased from a shop or somthing.
If thats true it would vastly simplify my Biohackers life
Biohack IMO specifies "attack" and Double Tap itself specifies that while using two ammo it is "an attack" not two attacks that are combined into one.
So while Medicinals ar debatable as to if it works. (because is the filled ammo different than not filled? GM territory that).
Biohacks should cleanly work with double tap while only using one. And it should work with caustojets and lances acid just fine. As they don't lose the property Injection when used as acid. Which is the only requirement for biohacking.
Biohackers do make them in the moment so it makes sense that they could adjust for the acid shot type.
ARguably the caustolance+sniper scopes (and or the bifold) are arguably the closest thing to an actual sniper abiltiy for the biohacker as well. So its pretty helpful that biohacks work well.
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sidenote caustolances (the long arm one) actually are allowed to inject other stuff in the acid version. Due to the lack of wording against it-and the additional wording of the tank that allows you to add things. (as opposed to the Small Arms where you have to load a dart itself).
I missed somthing in my last post, the last paragraph should state that it would also cost 1 biohack useage as well as the 2 charges and 1 standard action, heh.
But to make it clearer, the order in which things would happen, based on how the rules are written, should be as follows:
1: biohacker declares they wish to make an attack action (or a double-tap attack action, or any other applicable attack action).
2: biohacker declares that they will use a caustoject, which has the inject property.
3: biohacker declares they wish to use a biohack with this attack action. They should also declare which biohack (I will assume its an inhibitor).
4: biohacker rolls to hit (applying all relevent modifiers)
5: if it misses, the biohacker loses the appropriate amount of ammo and 1 use of their biohack ability, these are wasted and the attack action ends.
6: if it hits, the biohacker rolls damage.
7: damage is resolved, taking into account DR, resistance, or any other applicable effect/ability
8: if the damage is reduced to 0, the ammo is expended and the biohacker loses 1 use of the biohack ability, these are wasted as no damage is dealt and no inhibitor is applied.
9: if at least 1 point of damage is dealt, the inhibitor is now applied as per its rules, the biohacker loses the relevent ammo and 1 use of the biohack ability, this is obviosuly not wasted as damage was dealt and the biohack took effect (unless the target saves, assuming the biohack allows a save, most dont!!)
note that this means that if you apply an inhibitor to lower the targets acid resistance, this lowering of resistance WILL NOT affect the attack that applies the biohack, as damage must be resolved BEFORE the inhibitor is applied. (it will of course affect subsequent attacks, assuming it actually managed to deal damage past their resistance)
all of this is assuming you want to use your weapon with the biohack (and are using it on an enemy), biohacks can also be injected directly without the use of a weapon as described in the biohack ability rules, as well as be used on allies with boosters etc.
Also remember you WANT the rifle to do zero damage if you have a healing serum in the chamber.
BigNorseWolf wrote: Also remember you WANT the rifle to do zero damage if you have a healing serum in the chamber. Irrelevent since a biohacker can forgo to do damage to an ally when injecting a serum/drug/booster/inhibitor/etc as per Injection Expert.
Charlesfire wrote: BigNorseWolf wrote: Also remember you WANT the rifle to do zero damage if you have a healing serum in the chamber. Irrelevent since a biohacker can forgo to do damage to an ally when injecting a serum/drug/booster/inhibitor/etc as per Injection Expert. ahh! didn't see that made it through the playtest. never mind then
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