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say a dragon bloodline goblin deals fire damage with his dragon claws, do they gain the +1 status bonus to damage from the burn it feat?
dragon claws is a spell, burn it! adds a bonus to fire damage done by spells... so yes, the bonus applies.
However, it's not just a +1 bonus - it's a bonus equal to half the spell level, minimum one, so at higher levels the bonus will actually be higher.
that's pretty cool, I didn't even think about heightening. I just wasn't sure because the spell gives you claws, and the claws do the damage, rather than the spell dealing damage directly, like, say, produce flame, but it makes sense
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thenobledrake wrote: dragon claws is a spell, burn it! adds a bonus to fire damage done by spells... so yes, the bonus applies. I disagree. Dragon Claws summons a weapon and that weapon deals damage, not the spell itself.
That shouldn't apply, otherwise you could use Burn It to boost the damage of a summoned fire elemental.
Blave wrote: thenobledrake wrote: dragon claws is a spell, burn it! adds a bonus to fire damage done by spells... so yes, the bonus applies. I disagree. Dragon Claws summons a weapon and that weapon deals damage, not the spell itself.
That shouldn't apply, otherwise you could use Burn It to boost the damage of a summoned fire elemental. Yeah, this was the reasoning I was worried about. Honestly, though, given the flavor of the spell, I think it would be fine to even have it apply to a summoned creature. It's narrow enough and a small enough boost that it's not really going to break the game. It doesn't even hit a +2 bonus until caster level 8. I'm gonna go ahead and run it this way anyhow
Yeah, I'd agree. It's the claws not the spell doing damage. The same sort of thing would apply to Spiritual Weapon in my opinion (not that it does fire damage...). I don't think it's gamebreaking at all to allow it, but if I was asked for a RAW opinion on this, I'd say it didn't work.
Claws are not weapons; they are unarmed attacks. Ergo it's the spell changing the caster and thus the spell doing the damage. Also claws do not naturally emit flames, cold, acid, etc. So the spell has to be doing the damage. Goblins get the burn it bonus.
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Aservan wrote: Claws are not weapons; they are unarmed attacks. Ergo it's the spell changing the caster and thus the spell doing the damage. Also claws do not naturally emit flames, cold, acid, etc. So the spell has to be doing the damage. Goblins get the burn it bonus. Yeahhhh that's quite a bit of mental gymnastics to get the bonus. My vote is no it does not get since the spell makes claws but the claws do the damage... But i would let a player use it if he thought of the combo.
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Haw can it not be from the spell?
Burn It! feat: "Your spells and alchemical items that deal fire damage gain a status bonus to damage equal to half the spell’s level or one-quarter the item’s level (minimum 1)."
The claws do fire damage as the result of a spell (a focus spell). Why does the claws part even matter? If you summoned a flaming sphere are you saying that you wouldn't let the goblin have the extra damage because it's the sphere doing the damage – not the spell?
Blave wrote: Dragon Claws summons a weapon and that weapon deals damage, not the spell itself.
That shouldn't apply, otherwise you could use Burn It to boost the damage of a summoned fire elemental.
Transmutation tag says otherwise. If Dragon Claws had the Conjuration tag you'd have a point.
sidenote..
does Burn It apply to persistent damage of Alch Fire?
not the same, but it sorta feels like a similiar allagory (Assuming thats the right word.. )
Zwordsman wrote: sidenote..
does Burn It apply to persistent damage of Alch Fire?
not the same, but it sorta feels like a similiar allagory (Assuming thats the right word.. )
"You also
gain a +1 status bonus to any persistent fire damage you deal."
thenobledrake wrote: Blave wrote: Dragon Claws summons a weapon and that weapon deals damage, not the spell itself.
That shouldn't apply, otherwise you could use Burn It to boost the damage of a summoned fire elemental.
Transmutation tag says otherwise. If Dragon Claws had the Conjuration tag you'd have a point. I'm not even sure it's the conjuration tag that matters. It's the summoned minion part that matters. A fire elemental is an independent entity that needs to be commanded to attack. The spell summons the entity and then the entity becomes a minion of the caster. The minion doesn't have the Burn It! feat and doesn't get the benefit.
Dragon Claws and flaming spheres are not independent. They are extensions of the caster and thus the direct parts of the spell.
Take a hypothetical conjuration spell that summons alchemist fire that is then thrown. The goblin should get the bonus even though the spell has the conjuration tag. The result of the conjuration would be an alchemical item and should get the bonus damage.
P.S I would like to propose a Prophet of Pyromania feat that allows Goblins to apply the benefits of Burn It! to their minions.
Aservan wrote: I'm not even sure it's the conjuration tag that matters. It's the summoned minion part that matters. I agree. I was simply pointing out that "dragon claws summons a weapon" was an inaccurate description of what the spell does since it's a transmutation.
It all comes down to the 'point' of the spell, in my opinion. The point of dragon claws is the dealing of damage - while the point of a summoning spell is to have a minion (even if you choose to have that minion deal damage).
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