Gun slinging Spellslinger (Magus) Improving On a previous build


Advice


one of the people in our Group is going to get us miniatures of one of are Characters. and I am thinking of having one of my Gun-magus and it has gotten me thinking i'd like to play him once more (Though I'd like to play a improved version of him)

My Old version was

Human (cause i'm real exciting) for the bonus Feat.

1 level of wizard (spellslinger) Cause i like arcane Gun

7 (Would kept going but he caught a case of the Dead and in game had to stay dead to prevent a powerful foe from coming back) >.>

any ways 7 levels of Magus (Eldritch archer)

I took feats like rapid - reload (used Alcemical Cartridges for super quick reloads)

But I am curious what i could do to improve him

1: Is there a better race or is the Feat from human just to good.
2: Should i keep the classes or go strait magus.
3: Guns. Two pistols Single pistol. or a Mukset
4: Advice on feats. I heard some where you can't use rapid shot with Spell strike / spell combat but maybe i miss-under stood.

Idk when i'd get to play him but I like a more well put together version

also before he acted more like a debuffer but i want him to be a decent damage dealer as well this time.


I can answer #4 for you:

No, you cannot use rapid shot and spell combat together. The reason is that spell combat is a distinct full round action, not just a full attack action that rapid shot requires to function.

As for the best race, it all depends on what you want to get out of the build. Personally, I'd probably go for a single big shot every round so that I didn't have to worry about reload shenanigans with two pistols. I made a somewhat similar character with levels of Witch (Havocker) with the VMC (variant multiclass) Magus option (single level dip of Spellslinger) that focused on delivering infused kinetic blasts (AND spells) through their two-handed firearm and dropping hexes to debuff the enemy. The race I chose was Gnome, because of the favored class options.


Actually you can use rapid shot and spell combat together. There was an FAQ a while back that explained that things like haste that modified a full attack can be used with spell combat. I don't have time to look it up right now, but you can find it if you go digging. That said you end up taking both penalties, so unless you are almost certain to hit it rarely will work out to better mathematically.


https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9qhe

Quote:

Magus, Spell Combat: Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?

Yes.

Edit 9/9/13: This is a revised ruling about how haste interacts with effects that are essentially a full attack, even though the creature isn't specifically using the full attack action (as required by haste). The earlier ruling did not allow the extra attack from haste when using spell combat.

Its a bit iffy for things like Rapid Shot, because you can use Rapid Shot with Haste. The "other effects" are very likely to be effects that grant additional attacks like haste does, such as with a speed weapon. Since the faq deals explicitly with haste, I'd caution trying to move any farther than effects that work like haste.

So, I stand by my original statement. No.


I disagree, but this isn't the place to fight such out. Thank you for finding the FAQ and posting it. Like I said I don't particularly think it's worth doing even if I do believe it is legal.


DeathlessOne wrote:

I can answer #4 for you:

No, you cannot use rapid shot and spell combat together. The reason is that spell combat is a distinct full round action, not just a full attack action that rapid shot requires to function.

As for the best race, it all depends on what you want to get out of the build. Personally, I'd probably go for a single big shot every round so that I didn't have to worry about reload shenanigans with two pistols. I made a somewhat similar character with levels of Witch (Havocker) with the VMC (variant multiclass) Magus option (single level dip of Spellslinger) that focused on delivering infused kinetic blasts (AND spells) through their two-handed firearm and dropping hexes to debuff the enemy. The race I chose was Gnome, because of the favored class options.

I understand firing spells through the gun but how you fire your kinetic blast through the it?


As far as delivering kintic blast a conductive weapon is the usual method for doing so. However it comes with the limitation of only being allowed once per round.


Take the spell cartridges feat (via retraining if your GM reads it as doing no damage at CL 1-4). This actually saves you Rapid Reload and dealing with cartridges.


deuxhero wrote:
Take the spell cartridges feat (via retraining if your GM reads it as doing no damage at CL 1-4). This actually saves you Rapid Reload and dealing with cartridges.

Spell Cartridges and Arcane Strike have horrible action economy with a Spellsingler/Eldritch Archer build. To use Spell Cartridges, you need to spend your swift action on Arcane Strike. This build wants to spend 1 or 2 rounds every combat to trade 1 spell and 1 arcane pool point for gun enhancements. What exactly is your Spell Cartridge based character going to do for the 2 rounds where you are not able to use the perk?

Loading 1 physical round would cover the loss of 1 swift action per combat, but not 2.

In the long run you'll want to get a weapon that doesn't require reloading. A shadowshooting/shadowcraft firearm. Or the unique infinite pistol. Then you'll be able to retrain some feats to make you a better caster.

You might even consider retraining away your 1 level wizard dip to get full magus progression (which will require you retrain some feats into proficiency with Firearms). The dip into Spellslinger gives you 2 feats for "free" and Spell Bullet, but by the time you're 9th level it might be worth paying 2 feats to become a better Magus now that you can get a magic item that frees up your reloading feats.


Ok so I have a better image of what I want.

I want to play a magical sniper

My main spell will be snow ball and I plan to use a Musket

Going Human cause I do want the feat

I may be able to convince my gm in to letting play a spell gun magus


Ok I am thinking of using the community class Spellgun magus and I am thinking of these as feat (could use some advice on the feats i have not chosen )

LV:1 Point Blank Shot
LV:1 Arcane Strike
LV:3 Spell Cartridges
LV:5 Rime Spell
LV:7 Intensified Spell
LV;9 ????
LV:11 Infused Spell Cartridges
LV:13 Dazing spell
LV:15 spell perfection (snowball)
LV:17 ???
LV:19 ???


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Infused spell cartridges is a pretty poor option for a magus as you already have spellstrike. You'd be much better off taking riving strike. You first shot lowers saves, then you follow with your spellstrike shot.

Edit: You still want to have precise shot. Also consider weapon focus and gunslinger. It's nice to know you can keep shooting even if you get swarmed.


That advice works very well for a debuffing Magus...I didn't even realize how well Riving Strike + any ranged debuff or AoE attack works for an Eldritch Archer...so sad you can't Hex as part of Spell Combat...

Scarab Sages

Deadly Aim is also incredibly valuable on a gun wielder, since you’ll be hitting touch AC often. In this case it’s a better boost than Arcane strike for most of your career, since the swift action for arcane strike conflicts with so many magus arcanas.

EDIT: Oh, I see. Spellgun gives up Arcane pool. Hmm. I’m not sure I don’t just like spelslinger /eldritch archer better. But I know that’s where you started.


baggageboy wrote:

Infused spell cartridges is a pretty poor option for a magus as you already have spellstrike. You'd be much better off taking riving strike. You first shot lowers saves, then you follow with your spellstrike shot.

Edit: You still want to have precise shot. Also consider weapon focus and gunslinger. It's nice to know you can keep shooting even if you get swarmed.

ok get rid of Infused spell cartridges

is the feat spell cartridges itself worth it?


Ferious Thune wrote:
Deadly Aim is also incredibly valuable on a gun wielder, since you’ll be hitting touch AC often. In this case it’s a better boost than Arcane strike for most of your career, since the swift action for arcane strike conflicts with so many magus arcanas.

Small problem with that:

Deadly Aim wrote:

You can make exceptionally deadly ranged attacks by pinpointing a foe's weak spot, at the expense of making the attack less likely to succeed.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all ranged attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on all ranged damage rolls. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.


Ferious Thune wrote:

Deadly Aim is also incredibly valuable on a gun wielder, since you’ll be hitting touch AC often. In this case it’s a better boost than Arcane strike for most of your career, since the swift action for arcane strike conflicts with so many magus arcanas.

EDIT: Oh, I see. Spellgun gives up Arcane pool. Hmm. I’m not sure I don’t just like spelslinger /eldritch archer better. But I know that’s where you started.

well I am not sure i can use spellgun there is a decent chance but i am thinking either that or Gunslinger / Eldritch Archer this time

Scarab Sages

The firearm rules specifically allow guns to work with Deadly Aim.

Quote:
Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target's touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.


The build that I have done was one level of siege gunner gunslinger and the rest Eldritch Archer. I went with spell cartridges, but it's really tough getting all the feats you want into a reasonable time frame.


Ferious Thune wrote:
The firearm rules specifically allow guns to work with Deadly Aim.

Hmm, the early firearm rules do seem oddly specific, so sure. Specific trumps general, so go wild.


So question would it make more sense to go Strait Eldritch Archer and pick up my Firearm Prof through something like Ancestral weapon Training from Half elf.

this way I can Keep up on my Caster level and spell progression ?

and I'd still end up with close to the same number of feats thanks to 5th level magus?


You can, but if you dip gunslinger you get quick clear, gunsmithing, and proficiency. That's three feats. Some people feel you can get by with mending for dealing with misfires, gunsmithing can be skipped if you have spell cartridges and use them most of the time, proficiency is pretty easy to get via a race or feat. Still, that's a lot of small advantages to skip on. I also took spire defender archetype with my build so picking up light armor proficiency was nice as well.


baggageboy wrote:
You can, but if you dip gunslinger you get quick clear, gunsmithing, and proficiency. That's three feats. Some people feel you can get by with mending for dealing with misfires, gunsmithing can be skipped if you have spell cartridges and use them most of the time, proficiency is pretty easy to get via a race or feat. Still, that's a lot of small advantages to skip on. I also took spire defender archetype with my build so picking up light armor proficiency was nice as well.

well The main idea is to use a rime snow ball or dazing snow ball on the enemy. I plan to take distance spell strike when i can via magus

but i was curious what was over all stronger?

also how would you set up the first 9 level of feats

I'd like to have spell cartridges, rime and Intensify spell at least


Hmmm, for that my build would be
M = Eldritch Archer/Hexcrafter Magus
G = Siege Gunner Gunslinger

M1: Arcane Strike, Point Blank Shot
G1M2: Spell Cartridges
G1M4: Precise Shot
G1M5: Rime Spell
G1M6: Intensify Spell
G1M7: Deadly Aim
G1M9: Riving Strike

This isn't some perfect or amazing build, but it's functional. You should be able to shoot effectively for solid damage and debuffs, and you'll be able to deal with misfires quickly. You can't do anything if you get caught in melee though so be careful about that. Take the flight hex via an arcana and you'll be able to stay out of most melle trouble.


@ baggageboy

So i'm curious if theres any Mods i can get for my weapon.
like a scope or what not? anything like that?

or what other items would you recommend other than the big 6

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