Spheres of Power and "Regular" Pathfinder 1e

[DungeonmasterCal]

One of my players wants to play an SoP Armiger in my game. My concern is will allowing him to play it, using the Spheres of Power system, clash with my regular PF1e game? He's a scrupulously honest player so I don't think he's trying to game me but I just wonder if anyone else has had just a class or two from SoP in their regular games and what the outcome was.

[InvisiblePink]

SoP classes are built to about the same T3/T4 power level as the Paladin or the Ranger, and are generally more tightly balanced around that standard than Vanilla Pathfinder is. In the Armiger specifically, you should expect a tactically-flexible martial who can change significant parts of his kit to meet the situation and who will likely have decent out-of-combat utility. They will outshine vanilla T5/T6 classes like the Fighter, Rogue, and Monk, but not in any way that multiple Core classes didn't outshine them already.

In short, it won't clash with your regular game. However, I would recommend giving other PCs the option of accessing the Spheres of Might system's feats and other material even if they don't want to play a Spheres class, simply so that they won't feel left out and can pick up a few tricks from it if they feel inspired.

[DungeonmasterCal]

Excellent! Thank you! I'll open up the options for those with the rest of my group.

[PFRPGrognard]

They're fairly well balanced. I'd just recommend disallowing multi-classing between Spheres classes and non-spheres classes.

[DungeonmasterCal]

OK. I can see that. I don't have to worry about that, really. I haven't had a player multiclass at all while we've been playing PF.

[InvisiblePink]

I'm curious what you've found to be problematic with Spheres/vanilla multiclassing. Spellcasters never want to multiclass if it doesn't advance casting and martial characters can pick up combat talents via feats anyway. What am I missing?

[GM Rednal]

-Looks in-

Okay, so first off, very important point: Armiger is a Spheres of Might class, not a Spheres of Power class. The two systems are separate, though usable together. Assuming DungeonmasterCal is referring to the class he wrote, the character probably won't have any spellcasting.

Well-built Armigers usually have distinct builds with each weapon - maybe one regular sword to attack with, a bow for long-range attacks, a lance to impale people with... Armigers with three flavors of slashing with a sword in slightly different ways tend to be very sub-optimal from what they could be. XD I personally recommend asking the player what types of talent sets and weapons they plan to use, and sprinkling in a few encounters designed to let them use different parts of their build.

As far as multiclassing goes, martial talents generally advance by BAB or Skill Ranks, so they will continue to get stronger even if a character multiclasses out of Spheres. They won't get more of those talents without further investment, but they won't be 'stuck' the way traditional spellcaster progression can be.

[DungeonmasterCal]

The character hasn't any spellcasting, I just double-checked. I also didn't realize there was a separate Spheres of Might from the Spheres of Power until I did. I'll get more information about what talent sets he chose. The character is only 3rd level (he joined a campaign already in progress).

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I played a Level 3 Incanter briefly in a game, specced around Destruction and Telekinesis. Basically I shot things; it was kind of boring. Given what people say about martials vs casters in the base game it was definitely like "I attack, I attack again", which I'm perfectly fine with from a design intent perspective.

A more creative person than me could probably have more fun with it.

[Greylurker]

Armiger is a lot of fun as a class. This is the guy who names his favorite weapons and spends hours making sure the grips are just right and that they are balanced to his likeing.

Gameplay wise his fighting style will shift depending on what weapon he is using and at mid levels he starts being able to swap out weapons mid attack chain.

course like all fighter types his greatest fear shall be the Rust Monster.

[PFRPGrognard]

InvisiblePink wrote:

I'm curious what you've found to be problematic with Spheres/vanilla multiclassing. Spellcasters never want to multiclass if it doesn't advance casting and martial characters can pick up combat talents via feats anyway. What am I missing?

This is a personal preference based on the games I've run which have allowed Spheres-based classes. Players have a way of mixing in a level or two of spheres abilities to throw the power curve off in ridiculous ways. So, I prefer to keep the two separate. If a player wants to play a spheres-based class, that is fine, but they are not allowed to try to find the cracks between the two - at my table, at least.

[Sir Antony]

There are a few things to keep in mind that might surprise you if you discover them during play.

- An Armiger can respec their custom weapons with 8 hours of downtime.

- Most of the effects will naturally pair with certain fighting styles, but there are some that aren’t just stabbing, hacking, and shooting. Alchemy adds utility and healing in addition to bomb-throwing.

- Many effects specifically don’t apply to temporary sphere access, and are called out as such. Switching weapons doesn’t temporarily give you ranks in Diplomacy, nor does it give you a bird companion.

[DungeonmasterCal]

I'll keep the bird and Diplomacy in mind...lol

[Greylurker]

Might not come up for you but Armiger multiclassed with Prodigy is a nasty combo of flexibility.

[DungeonmasterCal]

Thanks. I doubt it will, though. No one in my group is really much of a multi-classer.