Playing Cards to Affect a Check

[JDnD]

Hello,

I'm specifically referencing the rules:

Quote:

Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional). Players may now play cards or use powers that affect the check. Players may not play cards that modify a skill unless you’re using that skill, and players may not play cards that affect combat unless you’re attempting a combat check. Do not add traits from these cards to the check; for example, playing the spell Guidance on a check does not give the check the Divine trait.

and

Quote:

Anyone can play a card whenever the card allows it.

While this hasn't actually come up in our play, a theoretical concept caused a rift between some players, and I was hoping to get some clarification.

Suppose a Werewolf is encountered by a player. The Werewolf is a combat 13 check to defeat. The Werewolf also has the powers:

Werewolf wrote:

Before the encounter, examine the top card of the blessings discard pile. If the card is a Blessing of the Gods, the difficulty to defeat the Werewolf is increased by 3.

Before the encounter is pretty vague, as it could mean before any dice are rolled, and it could also mean when the card is revealed.

A player wishes to play Holy Candle, which has the powers:

Holy Candle wrote:

Bury this card to shuffle 1d6 random cards from the blessings discard pile into the blessings deck

So the questions are:

Can the Holy Candle be played before the Werewolf power has determined the difficulty?

If that's possible, does playing a Holy Candle count as affecting the check, as there's a chance that it would modify the check (read affect it), but it's targeting the blessings deck, and not the check itself.

Thanks.

[Zenarius]

I know the answer is no, but the true experts here can explain why more accurately.

The way we've always played is the part about affecting the check only refers to the actual check to defeat. I believe that step happens after you determine what skill to use.. That whole sequence happens during the encounter.

[Theryon Stormrune]

JDnD wrote:

Can the Holy Candle be played before the Werewolf power has determined the difficulty?

If that's possible, does playing a Holy Candle count as affecting the check, as there's a chance that it would modify the check (read affect it), but it's targeting the blessings deck, and not the check itself.

Thanks.

Zenarius is correct. The answer is no. By the time you have encountered the Werewolf, it is too late to use the Holy Candle. That's not a card that can be used during an encounter. Nor can it be used by another player during your encounter. It is requiring you to perform another action during the encounter ... namely, rolling a d6 to determine the number of cards. It is not "directly" affecting the check to defeat.

[Hawkmoon269]

So, a couple of things.

1. "Before the encounter" is a very particular part of the encounter. The order (in RotR) is:

RotR Rulebook p24 wrote:

Encountering a Card

Evade the card (optional).
Apply any effects that happen before the encounter, if needed.
Attempt the check.
Attempt the next check, if needed.
Apply any effects that happen after the encounter, if needed.
Resolve the encounter.

Beginning in S&S, "Before the encounter" became "Before you act" to remove some of the confusion (which you experienced).

2. The Werewolf was changed in an FAQ to remove the "Before the encounter" text. It now happens immediately. (That really shouldn't impact RotR too much.)

3. Now, to your actual question. This isn't a check (you aren't on the "Attempt the check" step of the encounter, you are on the "Before the encounter" step), so the part about playing cards and using powers to affect the check doesn't apply. But, there is this:

RotR Rulebook p10 wrote:

Encountering a Card

When you encounter a card, you—and only you—can go through the following steps. No one else can perform these steps for you, though other players might be able to play cards to help you deal with the encounter’s challenges. During each of these steps, you and the other players may perform only the specified actions. Players may only play cards or activate powers that relate to each step. Each player may play no more than 1 card of each type during each step; for example, no one player may play more than 1 blessing while attempting a check, though multiple players could each play 1 blessing during that check. Each player may activate any power no more than once during each step. Players may not play any cards or activate any powers between these steps.

However, even with that, I'd say you can't use the Holy Candle, simply because of the order. You couldn't play it before the Werewolf told you to examine the top card, because before than Holy Candle doesn't relate to the step of the encounter. And once you are told by the Werewolf to examine it, it is too late to change the top card. For something a card to allow you to change the top card of the blessing discard pile, you would need a power like "When you would examine the top card of the blessing discard pile, discard this card to shuffle the blessing discard pile first."

I hope that helps. Good luck on your adventure.

[JDnD]

Thanks all, that clears up a lot.