New cantrip idea: Wounded Morph

[NemoNoName]

I have an idea for a cantrip, interested to hear what people think (too strong/too weak, changes, etc).

Wounded Morph
[Cantrip][Transmutation][Morph]
Traditions: arcane
Cast: [reaction][somatic]
Trigger: you take damage from a melee attack
Targets: creature that performed the melee attack
Duration: 1 round

After taking a hit, Wizard morphs the weapon that is hitting them. Creature holding the weapon takes d6 plus your spellcasting ability modifier points of piercing damage. For every further attack they do this round (against any target) they take half the damage again.
Creature makes a basic Fortitude save; on a critical failure they also drop the weapon if possible.

[WatersLethe]

Seems really strong. Like, every single caster would learn this through any means necessary. The main reason is that it's a reaction, and casters don't get a lot of those. Shield is the competitor and it's once per ten minutes essentially.

It's a juicy action economy boost, even melee characters would jump all over it.

If you had to cast it it for one action on your turn, we might be getting in the realm of balance.

[NemoNoName]

Hm. I don't see it quite as strong primarily because you need to be taking damage in melee, which is not something most Wizards would like to be doing. This also means you can't really force it to happen.

Admittedly, martials using it might be an issue, but in their case it is fighting with many other options for the reaction, and their spellcasting ability modifier is likely lower, meaning less damage and also lower DCs.

But you may be right.

I also forgot heightened, which would be +d6 for 2 levels.

[WatersLethe]

Yeah I can see where you were going with it, but considering you can get cantrips with Ancestry feats and various other means, everyone who might get hit would want this.

Even fighters who get plenty of reactions would want it. If your AoO isn't triggered this gives you something else to do. Fighters also have feats that give them extra reactions just for AoO and blocking, so they'd be able to use it even more.

I really think having it an "offensive" version of shield, where you cast it on your turn then can apply damage if you get hit, would make it a much more palatable spell, and not just a straight "You get a really good reaction for the cost of a cantrip slot"

[Loreguard]

Ok, similar to shield.

A 2 action spell(cantrip), creates a strange haze that mutes the colors of the individual.
Duration: sustained up to 1 minute.
It being in effect gives you you access to the reaction you listed once.

Damage type done by the cantrip is determined by the primary material of the weapon.

Wood/Bone [biological], does Piercing damage (thorns grow out from the weapon piercing the wielder's hands)
Metal, does Fire damage (turning weapon extremely hot to the touch)
Stone, does Acid damage (damaging acid seeps out from the item)
Natural attacks are not affected by this spell.

These effect never actually do any real damage to the weapon itself. (thorns die and turn to ash falling away, heat dissipates completely, acid evaporates away)

The wielder of the weapon may drop the weapon as a free reaction, before making a saving throw if they choose to. Doing so turns their attack into a critical failure, likely stopping damage to the caster, but they only take half damage, without a saving throw.

The caster may maintain the transformation on the weapon for up to a minute after the reaction if they choose, by sustaining the spell each round.

Hmm... actually, it really sounds more like a primal and/or occult spell to me, rather than arcane. I haven't had time to think through if the damage is right. But trying to think of it as was mentioned, a sort of shield spell allowing you to turn damage against an attacker than necessarily specifically protecting you from the damage.

[shroudb]

Loreguard wrote:

Ok, similar to shield.

A 2 action spell(cantrip), creates a strange haze that mutes the colors of the individual.
Duration: sustained up to 1 minute.
It being in effect gives you you access to the reaction you listed once.

Damage type done by the cantrip is determined by the primary material of the weapon.

Wood/Bone [biological], does Piercing damage (thorns grow out from the weapon piercing the wielder's hands)
Metal, does Fire damage (turning weapon extremely hot to the touch)
Stone, does Acid damage (damaging acid seeps out from the item)
Natural attacks are not affected by this spell.

These effect never actually do any real damage to the weapon itself. (thorns die and turn to ash falling away, heat dissipates completely, acid evaporates away)

The wielder of the weapon may drop the weapon as a free reaction, before making a saving throw if they choose to. Doing so turns their attack into a critical failure, likely stopping damage to the caster, but they only take half damage, without a saving throw.

The caster may maintain the transformation on the weapon for up to a minute after the reaction if they choose, by sustaining the spell each round.

Hmm... actually, it really sounds more like a primal and/or occult spell to me, rather than arcane. I haven't had time to think through if the damage is right. But trying to think of it as was mentioned, a sort of shield spell allowing you to turn damage against an attacker than necessarily specifically protecting you from the damage.

since Sustain already costs an action, i think you now went the opposite way.

perosnally, i would go the simple way:

1 action cantrip:

1 round duration
Deals 1d4+casting stat damage the first time you are hit by an unarmed or melee strike while it lasts.
Type of damage depends on the material you are hit with.
Heighten (+1): +1d4

It's basically Cantrip damage, but you do not have to roll Attack roll, it hits automatically. It's 1 action instead of 2. But it triggers only when/if you are hit.

Tbf, all those pros (auto hit, half actions for same damage) seem way better than the Cons (you need to be hit) imo, but i would still probably allow something like that.

i think anything more than that (making the target damaged every time they attack afterwards and etc) is leaving the power level of "Cantrip" and entering the power level of "Spell slots".

[WatersLethe]

Shroudb's is closer to what I was thinking. Let's try to sort out the pros and cons of that proposed incarnation to make sure we're striking a good balance.

Pros:
*Cantrip, an easy spell slot to obtain
*1 action, uses up a relatively low usefulness action after your main 2 actions
*Doesn't use a Reaction
*Does standard cantrip damage

Cons:
*Requires someone to target you and hit you or is wasted
*You will likely take damage, unless you combine with a shield block
*Doesn't let you pick which attacker you want to damage

I tend to agree that this is balanced, but only because it doesn't take a reaction.

Gish casters would still be quite interested in this. Shield users would be very happy indeed. It wouldn't be an auto-pick cantrip, which is encouraging.

[NemoNoName]

I do agree, on the final form being balanced, but given that I was trying to provide Wizards with something to do for reactions, it fails my goal on that front. :D

Still, useful. Could be a nice Transmutation cantrip; Nethys knows Transmuters need SOMETHING.

[shroudb]

NemoNoName wrote:

I do agree, on the final form being balanced, but given that I was trying to provide Wizards with something to do for reactions, it fails my goal on that front. :D

Still, useful. Could be a nice Transmutation cantrip; Nethys knows Transmuters need SOMETHING.

you could make it an actual Spell with a short duration, like 1 min, that does provide a reaction.

ofc, damage will have to scale with spell level.

but giving a Reaction as a cantrip is a bit too much for what cantrips should accomplish imo.

[WatersLethe]

If you gave it a Reaction requirement, you could then choose which attacker gets damaged, but it wouldn't pair with blocking, so it might be a tad weak.

[Fleck6969]

I was thinking of the following

Backlash Cantrip 1
Raise a hazy film of retaliating force.
Cantrip Concentrate Force
Cast: [1A] to [3A]; Traditions: Arcane, Divine, Occult
Duration: 1 min
[1A] 1 Retaliation; [2A] 2 Retaliation; [3A] 3 Retaliation
Deal 1d4 Force dmg to the first # creatures that deal dmg to you with Melee or Unarmed Strikes.
When last retaliation is used, then spell ends and can’t cast it again for 10 min.
Heightened (+1): +d4 Force.

This is a mix of the above plus the Shield spell