Redemer Champion Exalted upgrade. Extremely weak (comparatively) or is it me?

[shroudb]

Edit:sorry if this gets double posted, forums acting up all weird.

Leaving aside the issue of having to try to "parley" even against those directly attacking you at the start of the combat (which is a lot more restrictive imo compared to other tenets)

Isn't the "upgrade" of their Champion reaction miles worse than all the other upgrades for the other tenets?

It only applies to Attacks that are also AoE, that's like... Whirlwind and Cleave?

Nothing else comes to mind.

In direct opposition, both the other upgrades, for paladin and liberator, allow your whole party to benefit (gaining either an AoO or a free Step respectively) regardless of what the trigger for the reaction was.

[Blave]

Nothing in Glimpse of Redemption (or the other Champion Reactions, for that matter) requires a physical attack. You can use it to block spell damage, a dragon's breath attack and so on.

It can be tricky to get the enemy and multiple allies within 15 ft, though.

[shroudb]

Blave wrote:

Nothing in Glimpse of Redemption (or the other Champion Reactions, for that matter) requires a physical attack. You can use it to block spell damage, a dragon's breath attack and so on.

It can be tricky to get the enemy and multiple allies within 15 ft, though.

Ah, you're correct.

I totally missed that, so at least it covers a few cone spells/abilities.

Still seems weaker, but not by how much I initially thought.

[Liegence]

It’s AoE resist (anything) = level for all allies in 15ft once per turn as a reaction. Not bad. I actually think the Liberator exalt is slightly worse, since the steps only activate if the target ally refuses the free escape. Which is itself pretty restraining (the irony!) - to get a benefit your ally has to be restrained, in 15ft, and refuse the liberating benefit...

Retributive strikes downside is your allies actually have to use their (typically) only reaction - the ability doesn’t grant it for free, and they’re at -5 which might be worse than any reaction abilities they have available from their own character builds. Gang ups are more common, it a -5 strike being the best reaction option may be restrictive.

I think Redeemer may be the Exalt with the most practical application - AoEs happen, and that apart from the 15ft restriction (which applies to them all), an AoE effect is the only requirement.

[lordcirth]

Liegence wrote:

I actually think the Liberator exalt is slightly worse, since the steps only activate if the target ally refuses the free escape. Which is itself pretty restraining (the irony!) - to get a benefit your ally has to be restrained, in 15ft, and refuse the liberating benefit...

The free steps also activate every time you use Liberating Step against a non-restraining strike - that's why that wording is there. You can either liberate an ally and grant them DR and a step, or you can grant them DR, and all allies a step.