Do dwarves start the game with a Dwarven clan dagger?


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Simple question with what I hope to be a simple answer.


Per RAW, not technically as it's only mentioned in their lore description and not in the rules for dwarves.

But honestly, I'd probably let any dwarf that wanted one the option to start with one.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

In a home game, yes I'd assume all Dwarves(unless they explicitly want to be clanless/reject their clan/etc) have access to Dwarven Clan Daggers, I would still expect them to pay for it out of their starting funds. It wouldn't require Dwarven Weapons as a feat.

It's a little different if we're talking PFS2, since RAW, no they don't have access without the feat. But there's been some indication that the devs/campaign organizers are looking into that aspect.


Do they? No.

Should they? Yes.


Do dwarve start the game with a clan dagger? Heck yeah they do!

Did they have to pay for it out of their starting gear funds? Heck yeah they did!

Liberty's Edge

If you're asking for Dev input good luck, it'd be nice.

If you want opinions from the peanut gallery on how it's being handled by others....

[In my games] All Dwarves have it for free unless there is sufficient reason for why they lost/destroyed/had it taken away that makes sense to lore.


Yeah, the Devs already indicated this will be tweaked via Errata so speaking of strict RAW is dead end.
That said, the idea Dwarves don't have access to Clan Daggers without the Feat is not strict reading of RAW.
This is common mistake of people inferring something granting X means X is not available by default.
That would be superfluous wording, certainly, but not strictly indicating about baseline availability.
As Dwarf description basically says every Dwarf has Clan Dagger forged for them personally at birth, that covers availability.

Although to be precise, that covers availability for THEIR PERSONAL CLAN DAGGER.
Just being a Dwarf isn't implied to mean now you can buy a dozen clan daggers whenever you want.
In fact I think even Dwarven Weapon Expertise should not grant such casual availability of them.
Because they are only made when a Dwarf child is born.


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Quandary wrote:

Yeah, the Devs already indicated this will be tweaked via Errata so speaking of strict RAW is dead end.

That said, the idea Dwarves don't have access to Clan Daggers without the Feat is not strict reading of RAW.
This is common mistake of people inferring something granting X means X is not available by default.
That would be superfluous wording, certainly, but not strictly indicating about baseline availability.
As Dwarf description basically says every Dwarf has Clan Dagger forged for them personally at birth, that covers availability.

Although to be precise, that covers availability for THEIR PERSONAL CLAN DAGGER.
Just being a Dwarf isn't implied to mean now you can buy a dozen clan daggers whenever you want.
In fact I think even Dwarven Weapon Expertise should not grant such casual availability of them.
Because they are only made when a Dwarf child is born.

what if you had an overenthusiastic blacksmith uncle though, that when he learned his sister was pregnant, he crafted like 10 daggers for the newborn?!


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Human-Ranger, Unconventional Weaponry, Dual Wield Clan-Daggers. Bounty Hunter background for maximum edge.


If a player is hard up against the 15GP limit at level 1 (say they wanted to buy good armor), I'd just give them the clan dagger for free, with the understanding that the player is to take care of that dagger and not just hock it so they can buy something fancy lest there be karmic repercussions.


^ Yeah, I mean I would just say they own somebody that money that they need to pay off right away, or before 2nd level at latest.

Quote:
what if you had an overenthusiastic blacksmith uncle though, that when he learned his sister was pregnant, he crafted like 10 daggers for the newborn?!

i'd say that qualifies as "uncommon". ;-)

...It would be nice if Errata covers not just birth dagger but buying any clan dagger... like a line in item description that says every dwarf has one, but any further they get (via weapon feat?) are not sacred. (this for people who like to fight with multiple clan daggers, upgraded materials etc)

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