Aiding an attack

[Atalius]

Would aiding an attack contribute to MAP?

[Saros Palanthios]

No, Aid is a Reaction. Reactions don't impact MAP, since they take place outside your turn.

[Zwordsman]

Nope.

Aid is taken on your turn yes. But the rolls do not occur until the triggering event you are aiding.
WHich is taken outside of your turn.

MAP ends at the end of your turn. Nothing outside of your turn contributes to MAP

(as a sidenote. I guess if you could take several attacks outside of your turn they would not incur MAP either I think)

Also pretty sure the range on Aid is up to your GM. So any reasonable method and reasonable range would work I imagine. My go to is "throw a shuriken to limit enemy movement" though another enjoyable one is "throw sand" classic works well

[Atalius]

Awesome, would I need to make an attack roll vs the enemy AC or the DC of 20 which is what it says in Aids description?

[Zwordsman]

RAW, its the DC 20. But. the GM is more than free to alter that DC up or down, as they like.

The playtest used the AC of the enemy.. and let me tell you. that was baaadd. Basically no one would do it (if you had to reach ac why not just attack yourself). So your GM could raise it, which wouldn't be nice IMO.

but normally it would just be DC20. Because you're not hitting them, you're helping your friend hit. So you could just be distracting the enemy, or plinking against their armour intentionally. Or using something to help your friend have a harder to see attack

[Saros Palanthios]

Note that Aid actions don't have the be the same kind of check as the one you're trying to aid. The text for the Aid action says

CRB pg 470 wrote:

You try to help your ally with a task. To use this reaction, you
must first prepare to help, usually by using an action during
your turn. You must explain to the GM exactly how you’re trying
to help, and they determine whether you can Aid your ally.
When you use your Aid reaction, attempt a skill check or
attack roll of a type decided by the GM. The typical DC is 20, but
the GM might adjust this DC for particularly hard or easy tasks.
The GM can add any relevant traits to your preparatory action
or to your Aid reaction depending on the situation, or even allow
you to Aid checks other than skill checks and attack rolls.

So you could theoretically Aid your ally's Strike attack with a Deception skill check to create a diversion, or Aid their Intimidate skill check with a Shove attack, or even just speak or do something specific that's not defined in the book, as long as you spend an Action and a Reaction to do it and your GM agrees that it makes sense and could be helpful to the task you're trying to Aid.

[Beina]

Maybe I got the rules wrong then.

Don't you use a ready action to ready the attack action on your turn? The ready action does carry the MAP over into the reaction.

[shroudb]

a note on "ranged assist" and "using skills to assist" for an Attack roll:

we have this little gem here:

ASSISTING SHOT [one-action] FEAT 2
FIGHTER
With a quick shot, you interfere with a foe in combat.
You can use the Aid action with a ranged weapon you
wield. Instead of being within reach of the target,
you must be within maximum range of the target. An
Assisting Shot uses ammunition and incurs penalties
just like any other attack.

that heavily implies that assisting an attack roll is done with a melee attack roll.

Everything else is GM's discretion, but i would be very reluctant to bring something like ranged assist with a skill check in an official table and expect uniform agreement.

Beina wrote:

Maybe I got the rules wrong then.

Don't you use a ready action to ready the attack action on your turn? The ready action does carry the MAP over into the reaction.

yes, but you don't "ready an action" to Aid.

Aid works differently: you spent an action to prepare, and then you use your reaction to Aid.

[Zwordsman]

Yeah. Assistingi s weird. It effectively is attempting to add ghost rules to the Aid section.
I really wish they would've updated that feat. Intead it was just the mass "change assist action to aid action" replacment method.

[Saros Palanthios]

shroudb wrote:

a note on "ranged assist" and "using skills to assist" for an Attack roll:

we have this little gem here:

ASSISTING SHOT [one-action] FEAT 2
FIGHTER
With a quick shot, you interfere with a foe in combat.
You can use the Aid action with a ranged weapon you
wield. Instead of being within reach of the target,
you must be within maximum range of the target. An
Assisting Shot uses ammunition and incurs penalties
just like any other attack.

that heavily implies that assisting an attack roll is done with a melee attack roll.

I don't really see how it implies that. Assisting Shot is a specific action that is done "with a ranged weapon you wield", so it stands to reason it would be an attack roll.

If you're trying to Aid an ally's attack with a melee weapon you're wielding, that Aid check should probably be an attack roll too.

But "using a weapon to also attack" isn't the only possible way to Aid your ally's attack.

[shroudb]

Saros Palanthios wrote:

shroudb wrote:

a note on "ranged assist" and "using skills to assist" for an Attack roll:

we have this little gem here:

ASSISTING SHOT [one-action] FEAT 2
FIGHTER
With a quick shot, you interfere with a foe in combat.
You can use the Aid action with a ranged weapon you
wield. Instead of being within reach of the target,
you must be within maximum range of the target. An
Assisting Shot uses ammunition and incurs penalties
just like any other attack.

that heavily implies that assisting an attack roll is done with a melee attack roll.

I don't really see how it implies that. Assisting Shot is a specific action that is done "with a ranged weapon you wield", so it stands to reason it would be an attack roll.

If you're trying to Aid an ally's attack with a melee weapon you're wielding, that Aid check should probably be an attack roll too.

But "using a weapon to also attack" isn't the only possible way to Aid your ally's attack.

if you can already aid with a ranged weapon attack, why make a feat to do so then?

Emphasis mine: "Instead of being within reach of the target,
you must be within maximum range of the target."

that's the issue.

if the feat didn't exist you could surely say "i assist the fighter by shooting an arrow to distract the enemy" and be done with it.

but the existance of a feat that does exactly that implies that Assist in attack is done in melee range.

As for skills, it depends:

"Distraction" is a VERY loose term. I mean, Flanking is basically Distraction already. As for specific skills, Deception has already an action, it's Feint. Scaring someone to Assist, is already an action, it's Demoralize. And etc.

Shoving, throwing dirt and etc i can see, but those are basically "attacks" as well (albeit Athletic based ones) either way.

So it really doesn't leave a lot of room. Especially for ranged options.

[Saros Palanthios]

Ah, I see what you mean now. That's a good point... perhaps Aid isn't as flexible as I'd thought.